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#1302948 - 11/10/09 09:06 PM Question for CLP owners  
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drsmith751 Offline
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drsmith751  Offline
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I just purchased a new CLP370 a little over a week ago and think it is great.

However, I noticed that it is not completely silent when it is powered on and not being played. There seems to be a low hum (white noise) noise when it is turned on. The humming does not change when the volume is changed or when keys are played; it stays the same in all modes, and is not heard thru the headphones. I suspect it is amplifier noise.

It does appear to be coming for the electronics on the keyboard. The sound is not as loud under the keyboard. When you shut off the unit you can definitely tell that the noise has stopped. The noise persists with and without a surge protector. I have made sure no cellular phones are near it.

My question is this normal for a DP? Have other CLP owners noticed this?

I would have thought a musical instrument would not have any humming or background noise.
I am concerned that there may be a problem with my brand new unit. I am really hoping someone on this site can give me some feedback on this. Thanks!!

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#1302960 - 11/10/09 09:28 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: drsmith751]  
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BillM Offline
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BillM  Offline
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drsmith751 - I have owned a CLP150 for about 5 years and think it is great. I was just about to respond to your question and say there is no low level hum coming from the instrument. Before I did, however, I decided to go down to the basement rec room where my CLP150 now resides (I recently bought a Roland KR17M digital grand and moved my CLP to the basement).

To my surprise there is a very low level hum coming from the instrument which can be heard when you place your ear about 6 inches from the keyboard. I must say that in 5 years of almost daily usage of the CLP I never noticed this.

Unless it is loud enough that you can hear it under normal playing conditions I wouldn't worry about it.


BillM (formerly b528nf7)
Roland KR-17M
Baldwin R
Clavinova CLP-150
Piano Vocals of Old Guy Tunes
#1302970 - 11/10/09 09:42 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: drsmith751]  
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MacMacMac Offline
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Not a peep from mine.

Even at full volume through a separate amplifier ... no hum, no hiss.

#1303087 - 11/11/09 06:51 AM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: MacMacMac]  
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athomik Offline
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athomik  Offline
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The components in all electronic circuits produce a certain amount of 'thermal noise'. If the circuits include an amplifier and speaker system, this results in a small amount of audible noise ( or maybe not such a small amount in cheaper products). Obviously, in up-market products such as Clavinovas (or Hi-Fi sytemas, etc), a lot of effort goes into minimising this noise, but it is very difficult to stop it completely. One factor which can make the situation worse is the use of effects, such as reverbs, which tend to amplify the noise.
As was mentioned above, unless the noise is very noticable or intrusive, everything should be working OK.


Adrian Thomas
Adrian Thomas Music Services
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#1303091 - 11/11/09 07:09 AM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: athomik]  
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kevinb Offline
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Um....

White noise does not usually appear as a `hum'. It usually appears as a `hiss'. Where low frequencies are involved I concede that it can different to tell the difference, but there are usually completely different causes.

The usual cause of `hum' in this sort of equipment is the alternating current of the mains supply finding its way into the amplifier. This is a design issue and not usually easy to fix. However, sometimes hum can be caused by the amplifier being too close to some other electrical nasty -- big televisions are a common culprit, as are computers.

If the hum is _completely_ independent of the volume setting, then another possibility is mechanical movement of the power supply transformer. This might conceivably be the result of an assembly problem, but more likely it comes down to the manufacturer's choice of component supplier. Some transformers are worse in this respect than others, even of the same specification.

Sorry -- unless it's bad enough to be classed as broken, if the cause isn't proximity to a TV or something, this may be somthing you have to learn to live with frown



#1303093 - 11/11/09 07:28 AM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: kevinb]  
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athomik Offline
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If the problem is with the transformer (usually loose windings), the noise should be quite noticable. Even with the transformer not tightened down properly, it would be unusual for it to vibrate. Otherwise, Clavinovas should be pretty immune to mains borne interference if they are not connected to any other equipment.


Adrian Thomas
Adrian Thomas Music Services
Service Engineer - Hybrid Pianos & Strings
#1303094 - 11/11/09 07:43 AM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: drsmith751]  
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jumbojoey Offline
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Ive had my CLP 330 for 1 year. No sounds at all when on, completely silent the best I can tell.
I've been really pleased with it.

#1303221 - 11/11/09 01:05 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: jumbojoey]  
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drsmith751 Offline
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Thanks to all for your input. I am going to try a Ebtech "hum" eliminator and see what happens. I don't want to be over critical, yet want to make sure my unit isn't deffective.

#1303292 - 11/11/09 02:28 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: drsmith751]  
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ChrisA Offline
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Originally Posted by drsmith751
Thanks to all for your input. I am going to try a Ebtech "hum" eliminator and see what happens. I don't want to be over critical, yet want to make sure my unit isn't deffective.


If this works there great. The problem was in your AC house wire.

What I'd suggest is to make 100% certain that the hum is comming through the speakers and not mechanical vibrations in the power supply. The fact that the volume control does not effect the hum makes me think it's mechanical vibrations but then you say the hum goes away when you plug in headphones, the headphones disconnect the speakers. My bet is a problem in the power supply section that feeds the power amp.

#1303386 - 11/11/09 04:44 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: ChrisA]  
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drsmith751 Offline
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drsmith751  Offline
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ChrisA - The noise is definitely not coming thru the speakers and actually it is still present when the headphones are connected. It does not come thru the headphone, consistent with not coming thru the speakers.

Probably for the power supply or amplifier. It is very faint, but I can hear it. The lack of noise is noticable when you shut the unit off. I wonder how many other units have the same condition. Is there anything I can do about the power supply? (check for loose connections?)

#1303390 - 11/11/09 04:51 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: athomik]  
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MacMacMac Offline
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Originally Posted by athomik
If the problem is with the transformer (usually loose windings), the noise should be quite noticable. Even with the transformer not tightened down properly, it would be unusual for it to vibrate. Otherwise, Clavinovas should be pretty immune to mains borne interference if they are not connected to any other equipment.
Do these pianos even HAVE a power transformer anymore?

Don't they use switching power supplies? If so, the hum wouldn't be coming from the power supply. Instead, it could be pickup from a loose or defective cable on the line jacks (if those are being used). Or from the piano's proximity to a noise source.

#1303663 - 11/11/09 10:48 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: MacMacMac]  
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drsmith751 Offline
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Wow what a bummer. Tried the ebtech Hum-x and there was no difference. The sound is definitely electronic noise from the unit’s electronics, not thru the speakers. I would have thought Yamaha would have had better quality control. To say I am disappointed and unsatisfied is an understatement!!!!!!!!

#1303788 - 11/12/09 03:10 AM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: drsmith751]  
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Tony Lau Offline
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Time to exercise the warranty. Hope it is fixable and if not a replacement is provided.

#1303833 - 11/12/09 07:17 AM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: MacMacMac]  
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kevinb Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Originally Posted by athomik
If the problem is with the transformer (usually loose windings), the noise should be quite noticable. Even with the transformer not tightened down properly, it would be unusual for it to vibrate. Otherwise, Clavinovas should be pretty immune to mains borne interference if they are not connected to any other equipment.
Do these pianos even HAVE a power transformer anymore?

Don't they use switching power supplies? If so, the hum wouldn't be coming from the power supply. Instead, it could be pickup from a loose or defective cable on the line jacks (if those are being used). Or from the piano's proximity to a noise source.


I would have thought that, if the sound isn't coming through the speakers, it's unlikely to be something like this. And even a switching power supply will have some sort of transformer -- it won't meet electrical isolation standards otherwise. But I concede that switching transformers tend to whine rather than hum smirk


#1309831 - 11/21/09 03:12 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: kevinb]  
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pieper Offline
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Hi DrSmith,

This is a bit of a late response, but I also have the CLP370 and I also hear the hum. It is very quiet though, and I only hear it if there is no other environmental noise at all. I´m not that technical but I thought it was caused by the 50 Hz from the electricity net (it´s 60 Hz in the States).
To be honest it doesnt really bother me, since I don´t hear it when I´m playing. What rather bothers me is that a couple of keys are slightly more noisy then the rest.

I believe that the CLPs are made in a couple of different countries, and I am wondering if in a some countries they are a bit sloppier when they are putting these things together. Mine was made in Indonesia (it says so on the label which is underneath the keyboard-section).

Kindof curious where yours was made, so I hope you´ll still check up on this thread.

thx

Last edited by pieper; 11/21/09 04:40 PM.
#1309891 - 11/21/09 05:06 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: pieper]  
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Huygens Offline
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I don't think a CLP should produce any sound from the speakers when no keys are hit. I also think the internal speakers are like studio monitor speakers, they produce no sound even when volume are turned up.

If the speakers are broken you will most likely hear an increase in the humming sound if you turn up the volume.

If the various wirings and connection cables from the internal sound board are _not_ properly grounded at all necessary places, you will hear a humming sound too. Perhaps there is some slack (grounding?) work inside the DP case.

I would call Yamaha and ask a question like: "How loud is the white noise hum on a CLP-370 if I turn down the volume and don't play any keys?"

My guess of the answer is: "There will be no noise, the CLP is a Yamaha."

smile


P-85 cheap plastic imitation; not because of sound, but weight.
#1309991 - 11/21/09 08:04 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: Huygens]  
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MacMacMac Offline
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Originally Posted by Huygens
If the speakers are broken you will most likely hear an increase in the humming sound if you turn up the volume.
Whether broken or not, speakers won't produce humming by themselves. The hum must be coming from the amplifier.

#1310005 - 11/21/09 08:45 PM Re: Question for CLP owners [Re: MacMacMac]  
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pieper Offline
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pieper  Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Originally Posted by Huygens
If the speakers are broken you will most likely hear an increase in the humming sound if you turn up the volume.
Whether broken or not, speakers won't produce humming by themselves. The hum must be coming from the amplifier.


I believe that both things were actually said before. The humming does not become louder when the volume is turned up. It´s not white noise (also said before somewhere in this thread), it´s a humming sound at one particular pitch. (probably 50/60 Hz). Maybe Huygens is right though that it´s got something to do with improper grounding.

The hum is minimal, in my experience, although I can comprehend that someone would feel frustrated about the possibility of a flaw in the construction. Could this have any further consequences besides the hum?


[Still curious about the location where your 370 was put together DrSmith..]


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