Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
62 registered members (BachToTheFuture, alphonsus, andy250, Alex_, AdrianR, Bambers, 11 invisible), 1,443 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1307189 - 11/17/09 12:28 PM Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments?  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Oblacone Offline
Full Member
Oblacone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Norway :D
Ok so I am having this concert in january, and my teacher said that i needed to make a shortened version of the piece, so i just cut half of it out.
And then recorded it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIKKb7DO14U
Any improvements i could make? Comments are much appreciated laugh
Oh and it isnt 100% perfect i know, i made a few mistakes.

Last edited by Oblacone; 11/17/09 12:33 PM.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1307222 - 11/17/09 01:18 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,832
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,832
New York City
I thought your playing was very musical and showed careful thinking.

A few suggestions:
1. Sometimes the rhythm wasn't steady and I got the impression this wasn't due to some intentional rubato but either a technical or memory problem that needs to be worked on.

2. Some of the left hand fingering you use seems like it is either awkward or would make it hard to produce legato. Try and find an edition with good LH fingering suggestions.

3. LH a little too loud in general.

4. The first turn you do near the beginning of the piece in your shortened version seems rhythmically inoorrect.

Some recordings
Richter(note left hand fingering suggestions and balance between LH and RH):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iH1ONnXrdY&feature=related

Horowitz(I prefer this one):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIj8SeiKNEA&feature=fvw

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/17/09 01:22 PM.
#1307243 - 11/17/09 02:03 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Oblacone Offline
Full Member
Oblacone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Norway :D
Well yeah it was just that one time i suddenly forgot what i was to do - Ill make a new recording smile and well my left hand fingering is actually all wrong..since i didn't learn it from sheet music.

Thanks for the suggestions laugh Its great to have this forum help out with performances laugh

Last edited by Oblacone; 11/17/09 02:03 PM.
#1307488 - 11/17/09 10:01 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 281
PartyPianist Offline
Full Member
PartyPianist  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 281
This is a great nocturne. I play this regularly as a "relax" piece. Will do the critical form analysis when I get in.


You play it & I'll hum it, but currently rehearsing:

Bach WTC book 2 no 15 G major, no 20 A minor, no 22 Bb Minor
Mozart A minor Sonata K310
Mendelssohn Op 35 preludes and fuges
Busoni Carmen Fantasy
Rachmaninov Bb prelude OP 23 no 2
Lyapunov Humoreske Op 34
and others
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1307576 - 11/18/09 01:28 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: PartyPianist]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Oblacone Offline
Full Member
Oblacone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Norway :D
You do that smile

#1307625 - 11/18/09 06:52 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 281
PartyPianist Offline
Full Member
PartyPianist  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 281
I need to listen to the whole thing, but here is my evaluation of the 1st 11 bars.

Too slow. Needs to be played 20% faster. The base is a rhythmic motif and not a "melodic interchange". Everything is in the right hand and the subtlety is in the right hand part play. I was impressed with bar 4. Lovely phrased group of 4 over triplet cross rhythm. But what happened in bar 2? Did Chopin score some poorly executed trill in place of the quavor slur? The dotted (semi quavor) versus triplet cross rhythm was completely missed in bar 3. Practice hands independently. I did not get the part play in bars 6-7, particularly the 2nd minim B in bar 7. Careful how you pedal this. It should hardly be pedaled at all otherwise you lose a lot of the intended detail. Yes I have re-listened to the whole right hand. You are going through the motions riding on the base harmonies. The base should be played p[iano] and the right hand harmonies "etched out" as expressed in the score. In bar 9 the diminuendo is for the base while the right hand crescendos finishing on a "spiked" octave G. Don't improvise a grace note. You are making a statement...we are moving to octaves. You also missed the slur on the couplet. Tell tale sign was the memory lapse joining bar 11. You need help!

Overall phrasing of the octaves and sensitivity was poor, while the base was played far too loud. Also the base triplet motif needs to be phrased better. I like to play it a [quasi] mezzo stacatto first note followed by a couplet slur. Ok, that's an exaggeration, but the closest I can get to the correct effect.

Not a good performance, but a valiant effort Oblacone. Much work needs to be done on this one. If you do not have a coach, time to find one. You have talent, but it will not be realised without firm guidance.


You play it & I'll hum it, but currently rehearsing:

Bach WTC book 2 no 15 G major, no 20 A minor, no 22 Bb Minor
Mozart A minor Sonata K310
Mendelssohn Op 35 preludes and fuges
Busoni Carmen Fantasy
Rachmaninov Bb prelude OP 23 no 2
Lyapunov Humoreske Op 34
and others
#1307674 - 11/18/09 09:48 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: PartyPianist]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,212
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,212
Boynton Beach, FL
I enjoyed the passion you play with! You seem to love this piece and put a lot into it. smile

I agree with previous posters about the bass being too loud. Perhaps the positioning of your recording equipment had something to do it, but that is something you should double-check to make sure your LH isn't dominating.

I'd be curious to see what happens if you played this without pedal. It does require pedal, of course, but I noticed that you are relying upon the pedal to do legato for you in places where you certainly could play legato. This affects your touch and control. Moving 3rds int he RH, for example, could easily be played legato, yet you play them staccato and use the pedal to smooth it out for you. This gives a harshness to the tone.

At 0:15 you make the RH note staccato and accented. I'm not looking at the score, but I don't believe that is in there. It certainly looks dramatic, but it is unnecessary/distracting as it conflicts with the melodic line.

Lastly, I'll comment on your technique. It is more prominent in your LH, but overall your wrist seems a bit low and stiff, which forces you to raise the non-playing fingers off the keys, rather than simply pressing down the fingers used. Your non-playing fingers should not be tightly curved as they are. In fact, they should be as relaxed as possible. To correct this, you should play the LH alone, one note, and hold it. As you hold, relax all the non-playing fingers. Once they relax then move onto the next note and relax the non-playing fingers. Continue in this manner as slow as it needs to be. Gradually you will be able to increase the speed while maintaining this relaxation in between the notes.

I hope you take this criticism as it is meant - to help you progress further. You've certainly come a long way to be able to play this piece, and so it is not intended to diminish your efforts.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#1307685 - 11/18/09 10:00 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: PartyPianist]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member
sotto voce  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Oblacone,

My first suggestion is that you not abridge the piece in this fashion. It doesn't do the music justice, and it's not clear why your teacher would insist on it—unless the creation of a condensed arrangement is to serve as a musical assignment in and of itself. Otherwise, it's hard to see how it makes a difference whether the duration is 2-1/2 minutes or 4-1/2 minutes.

My next suggestion is that you study the score, both at and away from the piano, and play from the score at least occasionally even when a piece is memorized. It's the best insurance against errors creeping into your performance (whether they're wrong notes that "sound" right or incorrect dynamics and articulation) or making alterations of your own that you may not even be aware of.

Steven

#1307929 - 11/18/09 05:24 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: sotto voce]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Oblacone Offline
Full Member
Oblacone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Norway :D
Thanks a lot people, but if people are going to address certain points of the performance, could you please not use bars :P you see im not a very experienced pianist so if you do like Morodiene did that be great.

also I do use pedal a lot yes, again i just play pedal more than nesscesary and i tink my teacher know that but since Ive only played for almost a year she isn't super critical, yet she has told me to try and keep it down ( not the pedal down but how much i use the pedal, just incase that cam out unclear.)

So by saying it is hardly pedaled at all... does that mean i totally realease the pedal or do you mean i just pedal slightly like just a little bit.

And the lower bass - is partly my fault and partly the camera. the bass is more clear in this recording since im recording from the lower register but i also might play a bit too hard.

as far as technique goes... i can always work on it but fingering :S i dont think i can change it that much for this piece, since once ive got a fingering done it stays that way... but i will try.

give me one more week and ill see, i cant promise that all your critique will be improved on but i will atleas try to not play as hard with my LH and i will try to use pedal less.

Oh and 20% faster??? are you sure? I dont think I've heard that... ofcourse i can play it faster but i mean i find it nicer when slower.

Last edited by Oblacone; 11/18/09 05:27 PM.
#1308049 - 11/18/09 08:33 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 281
PartyPianist Offline
Full Member
PartyPianist  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 281
Yes, the opening needs to be a little faster. The middle section of the work should be played slower. Here you have the opportunity to demonstrate interaction between the two hands as both should be played with an even tone. Here the interplay between the hands is extremely important. However, you can relase your passion on bars 31 to 42. When you are ready to record it, that's what I would like to here. But please heed Chopin's advice to Liszt, "play as I write or not at all" (after he performed a paraphrase of Chopin's 16th B flat minor prelude 'presto con fuoco' - staggering as that must have been)



You play it & I'll hum it, but currently rehearsing:

Bach WTC book 2 no 15 G major, no 20 A minor, no 22 Bb Minor
Mozart A minor Sonata K310
Mendelssohn Op 35 preludes and fuges
Busoni Carmen Fantasy
Rachmaninov Bb prelude OP 23 no 2
Lyapunov Humoreske Op 34
and others
#1308080 - 11/18/09 09:24 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Oblacone]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,212
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,212
Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by Oblacone
Thanks a lot people, but if people are going to address certain points of the performance, could you please not use bars :P you see im not a very experienced pianist so if you do like Morodiene did that be great.

also I do use pedal a lot yes, again i just play pedal more than nesscesary and i tink my teacher know that but since Ive only played for almost a year she isn't super critical, yet she has told me to try and keep it down ( not the pedal down but how much i use the pedal, just incase that cam out unclear.)

So by saying it is hardly pedaled at all... does that mean i totally realease the pedal or do you mean i just pedal slightly like just a little bit.

And the lower bass - is partly my fault and partly the camera. the bass is more clear in this recording since im recording from the lower register but i also might play a bit too hard.

as far as technique goes... i can always work on it but fingering :S i dont think i can change it that much for this piece, since once ive got a fingering done it stays that way... but i will try.

give me one more week and ill see, i cant promise that all your critique will be improved on but i will atleas try to not play as hard with my LH and i will try to use pedal less.

Oh and 20% faster??? are you sure? I dont think I've heard that... ofcourse i can play it faster but i mean i find it nicer when slower.


This is excellent considering you've only been playing for about a year!

My comment about the pedal was that you are relying on it to play smoothly. You shoudl play smoothly (legato) *and* use the pedal. But I would try playing without the pedal and see how smooth you can make it sound. If you can do that, then add the pedal and continue to play that way.

I'm sure your teacher can guide you through that as well.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#1308203 - 11/19/09 12:58 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 72 No.1 comments? [Re: Morodiene]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Oblacone Offline
Full Member
Oblacone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Norway :D
Ok smile Thanks a lot! i will work with your suggestions! laugh - Yes but unfortunately my teacher has ... THE SWINE FLU!!! so ... she didn't see through my performance as usual, so i thought you people on the forum could do it, and i see that i need to do this more often smile

So thanks everyone laugh


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Where to buy Kawai digital pianos in LA
by kawaiplayer. 12/15/17 03:02 AM
Conversion: Cent Deviations to Pythagorean comma fractions
by Nikolai Vukovic. 12/15/17 02:32 AM
Digital piano louder higher octaves
by drhoward20. 12/15/17 01:26 AM
Farts waller
by drhoward20. 12/15/17 01:13 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,279
Posts2,679,356
Members89,267
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0