Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Smiles, frowns, neutral faces during lessons?

Thanks, David, that makes sense. I have a teacher who will signal things as I play, but they are when he thinks something should be communicated. But I'm also listening to my own playing.

This is actually a very interesting topic. You may not realize it, but we actually communicate more with our non-verbal cues than our verbal ones. I actually did a workshop on this because I'm training for a job in a healthcare field. We were taught ways to make patients feel comfortable, which I imagine would apply to students as well. Here are a few suggestions that I learned:
1) Position yourself at eye level with the other person (i.e. sitting if they're sitting and standing if they're standing)
2) Don't have an obstacle (such as a desk) in between you.
3) Don't intrude on their personal space (about an arm's length away is a good distance)
4) Don't cross your arms or legs because that makes you seem guarded, having arms by your side or on your lap and your palms slightly facing up is a less threatening pose.
5) Really put yourselves in their shoes as you're listening: listen intently and be sincere in your facial expressions. A smile is generally a good expression to have when appropriate, and tilt your head slightly when listening to show that you're paying attention.
6) Make eye contact--this one might not be good for all students. I was quite shy when I was younger and found it intimidating when teachers were always staring at me while talking. I still sometimes stare at the music rather than at my teacher when she is explaining things.
The most important thing is to genuinely like the student. Most people can feel whether they are well liked or not by the non-verbal cues that you're subconsciously giving off, regardless of whatever expression you attempt to plaster on your face.

A couple of interesting ones there! I really don't like the intrusion into my personal space - I always back off, so I do try not to do that to others.
And I understand what you're saying about constant eye contact being intimidating - as if there's too much resting on your response. Sometimes you actually don't want every word, gesture, expression to be noted and commented on.

That's an interesting one and explains why I intuitively spend much of my teaching time on my haunches. I've often wondered why I do that!

Frozenicicles,

That's a very good piece of advice you've shared with us, I think. That's precisely the kind of information I was hoping to see in this topic that I started. I do think it matters how our students "see" and "hear" us and that a certain "comfort level" is achievable for both of us. If we are unwilling to use what we have availabe in facial gestures or body mannerisms, we are possibly holding back from the student some valuable information about ourselves and the music we are playing. To be without these things is almost a passivity and a restraint. Does that help us in our teaching? They probably are some situations when passivity and restraint are required.

Surely giving the student something pleasant to react to in their lessons might just be ourselves!

Betty Patnude

It may be, but it also may not be. I think we need to use gesture in a way which is natural and comfortable for us - because if it's not comfortable for us, I doubt it will help the student.

I'm inclined to think you need to withhold the obvious nonverbals under conscious control, and then release them as appropriate to the student.

If my teacher said, "that sucked farts out of a dead seagull," I'd laugh and play it again.

If she raised an eyebrow with my youngest child, that one would probably melt down and refuse to play.

But I think much of real teaching takes place with the nonobvious nonverbals, and that's a lot harder to control.

My goodness! You are a pretty tolerant student if you can accept the "dead seagull" comments from your teacher. I'll have to try it sometime and see how that works but I think I would be risking decorum and perhaps among certain older students risking an abrupt departure slamming the door as they go out.

And, I'm amazed that a raised eyebrow would melt a child down so that they would refuse to play. I think I would live in fear that my eyebrows might do that to a kid, after all I do keep them plucked and groomed, and also the nostrils, and chin. (I'm being silly and it's coming across sarcastic, I know.) What age is your youngest child? I want to be forewarned as to which age group this might happen!

What a huge contrast between what it is that the teacher is "allowed" to do between the parents tolerance and the child's tolerance!

I wonder if I should feel insecure as I start my teaching today?

I'm feeling quite mirthful and I don't know it that's a positive or a negative. We shall see.

Betty

Currawong,

I wonder if there is a difference in our approaches because of who we teach and what we teach.

Perhaps you are working mostly with independent students who are already skilled in musicianship and possibly working on the higher level master composers toward performance.

I work largely in elementary music education building the basics, sightreading, rhythmic accountability, fingering, techniques, and teaching how to analyse, practice and memorize. I carry many students to 6 - 8 years of study but I do not teach someone who is preparing for college majors or who wants to perform in competitions, but I have passed these students on to local college professors in their private studios once their path is determined by their accomplishments in study with me and if they and their parents are interested in transferring.

Could this be a significant difference for deciding if and when facial expression and gestures are helpful to the student or not?

I do understand there are teachers and students who choose to communicate only in words - whether the verbage is minimal or encompassing would be acceptable on both people's parts.

So many parents want the lessons to be fun for their kids - I can't imagine that there is no facial expression and no gesturing during these times when fun is being experiences. And the younger set work with puppets (Mozart Mouse) and story line which certainly require the "storytelling" role and lots of animation.

I am just thinking about the pro's and con's of the question while posting and I don't want to make it seem like a big conflicting difference between us from my point of view. It isn't.

Betty

Of course I use facial gesture and expression - in a way which is natural and comfortable for me. I don't "put on" gestures because for me that seems contrived and unnatural. It may suit your style, and if so, go for it! I just don't think you can apply it to every teacher. I have taught all ages and levels from pre-school to undergraduate, and what I do with a 3-year-old is obviously different to what I do with a 20-year-old university student, or a 75-year-old adult beginner. But it is still within the bounds of my overall teaching style, which may not be as flamboyant as that of others.

I found some of the contributions rather interesting. And I can see Tim's point, that different individual students have a different individual reaction to gestures. What is trivial to one may have an overwhelming impact on another. His two extreme examples were just that - extreme examples given to make his point. I wouldn't get hung up on the actual words the hypothetical teacher might have said

I suppose my main problem with how the thread began was that it seemed like gesture was something you stuck on to your teaching, and that seemed artificial. As long as we remember we are all individuals with our own style, and that each style may be valid and effective, then I think the discussion has been helpful.

(I had an interesting recollection while writing this. I've learnt an immense amount from a variety of teachers I've had the opportunity to work with and observe over many years. Some were pretty extroverted. But one of the best kindergarten teachers I worked with was actually very understated, quiet and calm. And the children hung on her every word.)

Uh ... yeah. It sounds like Betty is talking about children here. Which may or may not work. I don't know. But I don't think any contrived expression would work too well on adults.

Unless the contrived expression is meant as (and taken as!) a joke between teacher and student, I would tend to avoid it even for little children. I didn't trust adults who put on false expressions for me, even when I was very small.

Never ever did I say the smile, frown, neutral faces or gesture were artificial, contrived, or anything but natural.

How does something get to be so distorted in the forum?

Teaching is a communication between teacher and student. All things I've mentioned are a natural part of communicating.

I said that I "act" or "dramatize" or "exaggerate" certain things to make them more understandable to the student as well as more memorable. I have said that my students and Iuse our imaginations in music making together, too.

Every thing I say or do is from my heart and "tool box" when teaching and I apply communication/instruction/correction as needed in the way the student has shown me he learns. Sometimes I have to say the same thing again later and will say it in the same way as previously and then again in a different way if it's not being understood.

I like what currawong said: "As long as we remember we are all individuals with our own style, and that each style may be valid and effective, then I think the discussion has been helpful."

It was meant to be a helpful topic when I posted it.

I am convinced that some of our students absolutely need relief from the tension and tedium that piano lessons can be - probably more noticable when they are not well prepared than when they know they are going to ace their presentation to us. That should be a place where they can demonstrate their confidence and ability to us and I'm sure it makes them feel good. This is when genuine smiles as well as genuine words are really appropriate!

Betty Patnude

Exactly Ed!

I was talking about children needing other than simply our words.

I did not ever mean other than natural responses - contrived was not part of what I was thinking or saying.

And, as for the adult, the adult and the teacher can set the communication style together so there is a responsibility on both parts that contributes to the lesson and to their relationship.

I think most teachers take their clues from their students regardless of the student's age.

Betty Patnude

David, I don't think contrived expressions and false expressions along with sarcasm, cynicism or aggressive critcism are helpful to anyone.

My suggestion would be to run from someone who would be so disrespectful and intimidating that they would purposely create a toxic situation between themselves and their paying client. I don't think someone who communicates like that gets very far in any endeavor they undertake in their life. It just seems dysfunctional to me. And, I think it's totally unnecessary and more a personality disorder of the person using those tactics.

Betty Patnude

Betty - I don't know who first mentioned the "contrived" aspect that's possible here, but I don't think anybody was accusing you of using contrived expressions yourself. And I think your final two paragraphs of this message, beginning "And, as for...", could easily stand as the last word on the subject, for BOTH adults and children. I think children are much more adult-like in this area (that is, in the way they perceive the facial expressions of others) than we may expect.

It's because words, even the most carefully chosen (and let's face it, not all our words on this forum fit into this category ) don't tell everything.

Sometimes we see an implication in what someone's written which just isn't there. At other times we are not as careful as we could be about the tone in our posts. (I'm answering your question, but not directing my remarks at you, Betty, just to be clear ). I actually think tone causes some of the biggest blow-ups here (I don't just mean on the teachers' forum - I was actually thinking of the pianists' corner, where I also hang out).

Something I've found helpful when posting (and if I really don't want to be misunderstood!) is to hit the "preview" button and read my post as if I were reading someone else's. Of course I don't always get it right , and people can get me riled, but it's a good "is this what I really mean" safeguard. We don't have total control over how everyone else takes our postings, but we do have some control over how most people do...

I think what people meant by "contrived" was that humans (of all ages), as social animals tend to be VERY adept at reading the body language of others...much more so than we Realize we are even doing...and if someone is trying to put on a "good face" that is not what they are Really feeling, we notice it, even if we do so subconsciously, and it makes us uncomfortable and anxious.

This is true of non-human animals...an animal will generally react very badly to a person whose facial expression does not match the other signals (verbal, non-verbal, and...in the case of dogs...body chemistry by smell) they are giving off.

Hasn't everybody been at a gathering or meeting where someone has bad news to tell and, although they try to act like everything is fine, you can Tell and it begins to freak you out?

Forcing yourself to smile or have a neutral expression is not going to pay off in student comfort because at some level they will just be able to tell something is not quite right. The more different your 'put on' face is from your natural expression, the worse the effect will be.

Look at pictures of politicians who have been obviously "coached" to appear a certain way for the camera. Hillary Clinton looks downright frightening when she smiles for the camera many times, for this very reason (I'm not knocking her in general, I just think it's obvious her handlers have tried to change her into what they think the public will find "acceptable" for a woman politician. Fail)

I would be surprised if this is a big issue during lessons tho...I'm not looking at my teacher's face while I'm playing, I'm looking at my music or at the piano.

But then, my teacher says things like, "I'm sure the performance will be just fine. You're playing mostly right notes" so compared to that, body language is minor

It was probably me who mentioned "contrived" first, and no, I wasn't accusing Betty of using contrived expressions. I was saying that if certain expressions are not one's natural style, then applying them because someone else has said they are necessary is "contrived".

I appreciate your contributions to this topic of discussion and I feel that we are getting somewhere with it and understanding each other better now. "Your" being collectively to all posters and not personally to currawong.

It's all very interesting to me.

I can understand why John v.d.Brook video tapes his lesson for review. It would possibly be a big surprise to us as to how we look and what we say during lessons. We actually don't know how we affect the student if we haven't faced the camera before. And, maybe we would see indications from the student that we didn't catch ourselves during the lesson.

It would be a great opportunity to see each other in action at a lesson, I think. Kind of a master class for evaluation and learning from our behavior and communication styles and skills.

I vote for natural, genuine and sincere!

Betty Patnude