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"Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! #1292229
10/23/09 03:17 AM
10/23/09 03:17 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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Hello all!

I am from Romania, just movedin to a new house.
Best part was a piano standing neglect in the garrage, all scratced, bumped and hammered on all sides!

Well, i gave it a try and two cabinetmakers worked there (.)ss up to save it. And they did a great job i must say, real wonder, tooked them two whole months to bring the bacon home but it was worth every minute.

The piano is a J SCHRIMPF piano made in Vienna, some say around 1900, and beside the inner label there is the number "1005" painted on the wood under the strikes, as you can all see in the youtube video (last frames show the piano before and after restauration) here (movie has english subtitle as well, it's all about before and after revamp the house, just activate subtitle if they are off from right corner arrow next to fullscreen button):
min 7:15 is with the piano



I also attached the label here so u can see it in detail, dont now how good u can see it on the video but the pic is relevant.
[Linked Image]

My question:

Who knows enything about this pianomaker or when my piano could be made that means what year, or whatever about it because the search on Google remains without results.

Please excuse my poor english, keep in mind that i am from Romania so it's foreign for me. Appreciate your help,

Julius, Romania

Last edited by mediatecar; 10/23/09 03:51 AM. Reason: image position
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Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1293775
10/26/09 02:55 AM
10/26/09 02:55 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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So, seems nobody is active on this forum... crazy

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1293883
10/26/09 08:52 AM
10/26/09 08:52 AM
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Heidrun Offline
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Oh, quite a few people are.... Seems like your piano may be a bit of a mystery. Schrimpf made some beautiful pianos back in the day, e.g. this one:
http://www.pianomuseum.at/html/devkverkaufhistorisch.htm

Is it playable, does it sound nice? Enjoy it!

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: Heidrun] #1293891
10/26/09 08:59 AM
10/26/09 08:59 AM
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Some piano makers are just very hard to find any information on. My piano's maker is the same way. My tuner has never heard of the name, never seen one before. I've found some, but not very much, information on my piano on the internet. I found switching search engines, or just looking again a few months later sometimes gets me more information.


I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: Little_Blue_Engine] #1293999
10/26/09 10:51 AM
10/26/09 10:51 AM
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BDB Offline
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It is just one of many old Viennese grand pianos, made by one of many old Viennese piano makers. It probably dates to before 1870.


Semipro Tech
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: BDB] #1294554
10/27/09 02:46 AM
10/27/09 02:46 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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Found out so far:

1. Joseph Schrimpf (um 1830), Wien (Wikipedia german, link http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Klavierbauern that lists pianomakers) So it seams to be older then i thought!... wow

2. Joseph Schrimpf jun. ca. 1856, Klavieratelier, Dauerleihgabe in der Schubertgedenkstätte Schloß Atzenbrugg (link of a piano-workshop http://www.hecherpiano.com/cds_klavieratelier.html , they mention CD's with musik played on piano they restaurated, the third from bottom up is the J Schrimpf mentioned there) Well, now i have between ~1830 and ~1860 to look up to.

3. Google books reveal the same timespan:
- here http://books.google.ro/books?id=e4MXAQAAIAAJ&dq=Joseph+schrimpf&q=schrimpf (it's the romanian version but whatever) you can see the pianomaker in that book and the year 1832 mentioned.
- also here http://books.google.ro/books?id=J18...page&q=Joseph%20schrimpf&f=false you can see Joseph Schrimpf and Son and the year 1838

4. The book "Makers of the Piano, 1700-1820"
Book by Martha Novak Clinkscale; Oxford University Press, 1993
mention in page 259:
"SCHRIMPF, Joseph, sen. (b Vienna, 16 Sept. 1786-d [after 1845]). Piano maker in Vienna. His son Joseph Schrimpf, jun. , also built pianos. ( Ottner/WIEN, 133 f.)"

So it's pritty obvious that my piano was built between 1830~1840 (most of pianos buildt by Schrimpf are untill 1840). That if it was build by Schrimpf the father. If his son did it ("His son Joseph Schrimpf, jun. , also built pianos."), than maybe we can go until 1860 i suppose.

The restauration of it is not over yet so i cannot tell how it sounds, i hope next week the keyboard will be ready as well and then i'll see. (Hear)

After it's ready i will post a youtube with the piano and how it sound. smile

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1294565
10/27/09 03:23 AM
10/27/09 03:23 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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On the inner label (read my initial post) it is written in german:

"Proof that the firma has a 50 years good record are also the over 5000 piano made by it"

So, my piano is made by Schrimpf junior, i am sure, because after 50 years the senior should have been past away...

That means the piano is not from 1820~1850 (made by senior), most probable it is made around 1860~1870. Maybe the 1005'th made by the son? cool

Last edited by mediatecar; 10/27/09 03:24 AM. Reason: correctur
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1294577
10/27/09 04:33 AM
10/27/09 04:33 AM
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boston north
lilylady Offline
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What care you have taken to restore your home. And your piano.

Both are beautiful!

Thanks for sharing.


"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: lilylady] #1294593
10/27/09 05:51 AM
10/27/09 05:51 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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Originally Posted by lilylady
What care you have taken to restore your home. And your piano.

Both are beautiful!

Thanks for sharing.


Imagine that the former owner told me "well, damn that piano, put it on the street if you dont want it!cursing" , so i said to myself: why not try to restore it?! You can imagine how curious i am to hear the first sounds after the keyboard comes back, the professor that makes the restauraton replace these days all the ivory from each key, because a new one we thought will look too white and new, considering the rest of the piano. He replace evan the fabric from the hammers thaty strikes the strings, then he will polish the strings because they are kind of rusty...

During restauration the piano was burnished and painted with matt polish, not glossy, to preserve the old looks, a new keyboard is nothing good for that old piece, you can imagine...!

The woodwork was ~550 USD and the mechanicall restauration will be somewhere around 400 USD. Worth!

I promise after it's all ready, i will film it during performance. And put it on youtube and here so you can enjoy it! thumb yippie

If someone can give me a more exact date of when it was made it would be great, 1860~1870 is the nearest i deduced from all my researches. I also emailed austrian restaurators, especially from Vienna, but nobody answered me back. frown

Last edited by mediatecar; 10/27/09 05:53 AM. Reason: addad smiley
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: Heidrun] #1294594
10/27/09 06:01 AM
10/27/09 06:01 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Heidrun
Oh, quite a few people are.... Seems like your piano may be a bit of a mystery. Schrimpf made some beautiful pianos back in the day, e.g. this one:
http://www.pianomuseum.at/html/devkverkaufhistorisch.htm

Is it playable, does it sound nice? Enjoy it!


It sure is playable, as you can read above it is going trough restauratin process now, the carpenter job is ready and keyboard, hammers and strings are in work. As i said, after it's finished i'll post a youtube performance and i'll post here as well so everybody can share my piano! 3hearts

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1294613
10/27/09 06:58 AM
10/27/09 06:58 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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More pics on my blog here:
http://mediatecforum.blogspot.com/

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1294619
10/27/09 07:16 AM
10/27/09 07:16 AM
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Bart Kinlein Offline
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A great looking piano! Nice research too. Imagine trying to collect that information prior to the internet.

As others have said, very interested in how it sounds.

And the previous owner said to junk it! sick


Steinway 1905 model A, rebuild started 2008, completed 2012
Yahama CVP-401
Will somone get my wife off the Steinway so I can play it!
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: Bart Kinlein] #1294648
10/27/09 08:26 AM
10/27/09 08:26 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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Was a gipsy, i asked him several times to take it from the garrage, finally he said i should put it on the street, he dont care.

The truth is pianos are not subject of the rule "the older, the expensiver", that's for violins, but still, an 150j old piano is a piece of collector, if not a valuable asset.

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1294668
10/27/09 09:08 AM
10/27/09 09:08 AM
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marimorimo Offline
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Originally Posted by mediatecar
The truth is pianos are not subject of the rule "the older, the expensiver", that's for violins, but still, an 150j old piano is a piece of collector, if not a valuable asset.


Sorry if I burst your bubble, but the general feeling I get from reading around the forums is that most antique pianos are worthless and well past their useful life. Pianos are valued for their use as an instrument, not their age. However, I do hope that your builder brings life back to your piano wink We may get a pleasant surprise.



Working on: Schumann Album for the Young, Clementi Op 36 No. 1 (all movements), Various Bach, Czerny 599
+ CASIO PX-720 and PX-730 +
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: marimorimo] #1294701
10/27/09 10:01 AM
10/27/09 10:01 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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You're right.

But still, a 150y old piano or furniture is a sentimental asset, and the professor in charge of the mechanic restauration asured me that the sound is very good. Not a concert quality piano, but for indoor practicing reasonable.

Modern pianos are comparative 10 X more expensive, the strings are double disposed, the tune keys are more stable and precise and easyer to use, the overall sound is more full and clear, no doubt about that.

But the simple fact of being owner of a century and a half old piece... amazing, isn't it? If it could speak...! crazy wow

Last edited by mediatecar; 10/27/09 10:02 AM. Reason: editing
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1295828
10/29/09 02:26 AM
10/29/09 02:26 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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Friends all over the world answered to my question, here I give you the translation from a german forum http://www.clavio.de/forum/klavier-...schrimpf-fluegel-wie-alt.html#post120037 :

Quote
(...) Ich vermute, dass das Baujahr so um 1850 bis 1860 ist. Die Gussplatte ist nicht aus einem Stück, die Spreizen scheinen geschraubt zu sein, aber die Bilder sind nicht sehr genau um das abschließend beurteilen zu können.

Zudem ist der Flügel geradsaitig.

Die meisten Hersteller sind so um 1860 bis 1870 zur "modernen" Bauform übergegangen: gekreuzter Bezug (statt Geradsaiter) und massive Gussplatte statt geschraubter Spreizen. Aber, da gibt es natürlich auch innovative Hersteller und Nachzügler.


Translation:
Quote
(...) I suppose it was build year 1850 to 1860. The cast plate is not a unified whole, the struts seams to be screwed, but the pic's are not enough relevant to draw final conclusions.

Also the piano is with straight strings.

Most manufacturer went over to "modern" design around 1860 to 1870: crossed strings (in stead of straight ones) and unified whole cast plate instead of screwed struts. But they sure are innovative manufacturer and latecomer.


Now, I sure have my problems speaking english from romanian, it doesen't get better translating from german. Please correct me if I went wrong somewhere, I sure will change the translation in the post. Thank you!

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1296052
10/29/09 12:09 PM
10/29/09 12:09 PM
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Pianolance Offline
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Just a suggestion, when you prop up the lid flip the front part of the lid back on its hing. That's the traditional way to prop a lid, it looks out of proportion the way it is in the pictures. It's a cool piano though.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: Pianolance] #1296426
10/30/09 01:22 AM
10/30/09 01:22 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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I did not take the pictures, it was a friend of mine, he liftet the lid just to catch the label, strings and so on.

I know how it must be lifted, but still, thank you. Germans noticed it also very quick on the other forum.
Quote
Wenn du den Flügel aufklappen willst, ist es üblich, zunächst den Vorderdeckel nach hinten zu klappen und dann den hinteren Teil des Deckels (mit umgeklapptem Vorderdeckel) hochzuheben.

Last edited by mediatecar; 10/30/09 01:22 AM.
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1305326
11/14/09 09:35 AM
11/14/09 09:35 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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Here i am back, with news: The piano is back to life!


Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1306993
11/17/09 02:47 AM
11/17/09 02:47 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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Nobody, nothing? I thought it's an interesting restauration, dont you?

The short movie presents only the final touches to the complete restauration of a "Joseph Schrimpf" piano, buildt around 1860 in Wienna, "inherited" when buying a new house, found in the garrage, all scratced, bumped and hammered on all sides. After restauratioon of all wooden parts, the keyboard and hammers where repaired in the piano-workshop of professor Gavril Lazoc.
The movie presents the polish and tuning of strings, adjust of mechanism, all made at my home November 2009.

Last edited by mediatecar; 11/17/09 02:50 AM. Reason: editing
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1307005
11/17/09 03:27 AM
11/17/09 03:27 AM
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Congratulations! I think it's wonderful that you decided to save the abused piano and bring new life to it with Gavril Lazoc's restoration skills. It looks really beautiful. If I had the room, I wouldn't mind having an antique restored piano as well. How do you like playing it?

sc


"Cats make purrfect friends"
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: sleepingcats] #1307017
11/17/09 04:39 AM
11/17/09 04:39 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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it's deffinite harder to play that piano than a newer one, the keyboard needs bit more strenght to play on but that's great for learning, like driving-school in an old chevy and driving after that a new Chrysler smile

Fact is it can be played on, still needs some last fine adjustmenst from Mr Lazoc to be made this week and after that I'll record a video with lid on and from a distance, first record where made from to close.

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1307018
11/17/09 05:04 AM
11/17/09 05:04 AM
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Very interesting video and pretty music! Congratulations on your newly restored piano!! laugh


Working on: Schumann Album for the Young, Clementi Op 36 No. 1 (all movements), Various Bach, Czerny 599
+ CASIO PX-720 and PX-730 +
Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: sleepingcats] #1307028
11/17/09 06:16 AM
11/17/09 06:16 AM
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Mediatecar
I enjoyed watching this - as with any piano restoration.
It would be interesting now to hear how this piano really sounds during a performance, as this didn't come across ideally in the brief extracts of the video.
I did detect a rather noisy action at one part near the end; was it possible to reduce this, and if not does this in any way detract from your pleasure of playing?
The sound would appear to be typical of a Viennese piano of this era - obviously not surprising due to the make and information you have provided. This is much lighter and more delicate than modern pianos, and imho has a singular appeal which would limit the repertoire that could be satisfactorily performed on this instrument.
Notwithstanding her new and reconditioned implants, your pianos original structure still remains frail, so you would be advised to ensure that she is kept in as comfortable and as stable an environment as possible - not unlike a well-run, highly recommended nursing home.
Are you happy with the result of the sound, and was it as you expected? If so, it was obviously well worth the time and expense, and I wish you a very happy musical future together.

Last edited by Tweedpipe; 11/17/09 06:51 AM.

Currently working on:-
C Major scale (r/h only - starting with the pinkie finger)......

Dear Noah,
We could have sworn you said the ark wasn't leaving till 5.
Yours sincerely,
The Unicorns



------------------------------

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: Tweedpipe] #1307094
11/17/09 09:36 AM
11/17/09 09:36 AM
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mediatecar Offline OP
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I enjoyed watching this - as with any piano restoration.
It would be interesting now to hear how this piano really sounds during a performance, as this didn't come across ideally in the brief extracts of the video.

You're right, first of all i recorded the images paying more attention to the images than to the sound. And it's a well known fact for every piano recording, the sound is NOT recorded from over the strings, as i did it.

I did detect a rather noisy action at one part near the end; was it possible to reduce this, and if not does this in any way detract from your pleasure of playing?
The sound would appear to be typical of a Viennese piano of this era - obviously not surprising due to the make and information you have provided. This is much lighter and more delicate than modern pianos, and imho has a singular appeal which would limit the repertoire that could be satisfactorily performed on this instrument.

The noise comes from:
1 - the sound-dimmers (sorry i don't know the technical name in English) that are not yet in perfect position on strings, some parts are still in proximity of some strings and make some noise during vibration;
2 - a small crack in the piano's wooden plate under the strings, i was told it would not be audible from 1 or 2 meters if the lid's down.

I sure will record in better conditions a performance with my piano-teacher and post it.


Notwithstanding her new and reconditioned implants, your pianos original structure still remains frail, so you would be advised to ensure that she is kept in as comfortable and as stable an environment as possible - not unlike a well-run, highly recommended nursing home.

The piano has his stable place in a room with perfect conditions, don't worry about that.

Are you happy with the result of the sound, and was it as you expected? If so, it was obviously well worth the time and expense, and I wish you a very happy musical future together.

Yes, the sound is ok, I will share it, the piano will be re tuned next week and final touches will be made on keyboard mechanics so i hope it will be better.

Re: "Inherited" J SCHRIMPF Wien piano ! [Re: mediatecar] #1307392
11/17/09 07:05 PM
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Thank you for sharing, mediatecar; it's nice to read about someone in Romania who brought a Viennese piano back to life.

I like the darker tone that the piano has, and will look forward to the recordings. smile


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