2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
37 members (3x4rt, Dazzie2, Greta99, 36251, EVC2017, BachToTheFuture, donpi, iliverez, 6 invisible), 373 guests, and 374 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
how do you know you're good?
#1303329 11/11/09 03:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
T
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
in jazz music this is more simple to determine I guess but in classic piano playing not so so I think. Are you good because somebody told you so (a teacher?) or you won some competition or you simply like to listen to yourself playing then you figured you got to be not bad.
Judging classic piano competitions has to be tough, so many players playing one tune sounds almost "exactly" the same for many at first, so what they count? mistakes and misses, musicality?

Re: how do you know you're good?
tremens, delirium #1303333 11/11/09 03:24 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Playing any classical piece involves a great deal of skill and knowledge. You wouldn't necessarily hear what I hear.

Re: how do you know you're good?
keyboardklutz #1303340 11/11/09 03:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
T
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Playing any classical piece involves a great deal of skill and knowledge. You wouldn't necessarily hear what I hear.


knowledge? how come knowledge comes into play? Oh, you mean I'd need to know that particular tune exactly note by note...
You have mentioned skills, knowledge - where are musicality, feeling etc, not important?

Re: how do you know you're good?
tremens, delirium #1303345 11/11/09 03:40 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
You need knowledge of the genre and its historical place.

Re: how do you know you're good?
keyboardklutz #1303351 11/11/09 03:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,047
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,047
Depends on the audience: yourself? friends? family? teacher? judges?


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: how do you know you're good?
keyboardklutz #1303359 11/11/09 04:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 119
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Playing any classical piece involves a great deal of skill and knowledge. You wouldn't necessarily hear what I hear.


Very true, I have two teachers, one at home during the summer and one at school. I have stopped learning classical from my summer teacher simply because he can't hear it or teach it as well as my school teacher. He is better with jazz and pop music simply because it is not as knit-picky so to speak.

To further my example, at school my teacher will flat out stop me in the middle of a passage because she heard 1 note of an 8 note chord sounding over the dominant melody, where my teacher in the summer probably would miss it or just not think it was as important. Or consider note values, my school teachers favorite critique of me is "short change(ing)" a note. Classical music requires much more finesse and technique to play it "correctly" than jazz where you have a standard that you can make your own.

Re: how do you know you're good?
PianonaiP #1303368 11/11/09 04:23 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,126
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,126
I just know I am.

Re: how do you know you're good?
gooddog #1303371 11/11/09 04:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 516
1
1RC Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
1
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 516
There can be any criteria.

When I played guitar as a kid, the approval of others was important to me. So when people started to say good things about my playing I lost a lot of motivation, I'd met my (unconscious) goal.

IMO the ultimate goal is musical: to effectively communicate the meaning/emotion/affekt. But that's a loaded statement, since pretty much all factors come together to help the music get across.

I like how Josef Hofmann put it: "By repetition under unremitting attention to the written values. If, then, you should find how much there is still left for you to do, you have proved to yourself that you have understood the piece spiritually and are on the right track to master it. With every repetition you will discover some hitherto unnoticed defect in your interpretation. Obviate these defects, one by one, and in so doing you will come nearer and nearer to the spiritual essense of the work in hand."

Which I take to mean: to always be improving. Perfection is a useful ideal because it's impossible, we'll never reach it so it keeps us moving.

Re: how do you know you're good?
pianoloverus #1303372 11/11/09 04:27 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,126
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,126
He told me.
http://web.telia.com/~u85420275/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbq-laOlYbc

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/11/09 04:32 PM.
Re: how do you know you're good?
pianoloverus #1303373 11/11/09 04:29 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,126
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,126
My 110 year old Grandmother told me.

Re: how do you know you're good?
pianoloverus #1303376 11/11/09 04:33 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,126
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,126
Gyro told me.

Re: how do you know you're good?
tremens, delirium #1303377 11/11/09 04:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
S
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
It may be good to know you're good, but I think it's better not to be concerned about it (especially if you're an amateur).

What does "good" mean, anyway? How do you quantify it? It's so relative that it's meaningless: everyone is good relative to someone else, and yet another person will always be better.

If you consider the practice of music to be both an art and a craft and apply yourself to it as seriously and skillfully as you're able, that's all that matters in my opinion.

Steven

Re: how do you know you're good?
PianonaiP #1303379 11/11/09 04:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 516
1
1RC Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
1
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 516
Originally Posted by PianonaiP
Classical music requires much more finesse and technique to play it "correctly" than jazz where you have a standard that you can make your own.


Maybe classical tends to be pickier for having a much longer tradition? I don't believe in any sort of absolute relativity, where one jazz performance is just as good as the next... Nuance and subtlety are welcome in any musical style.

Non-musicians aren't usually aware of all the details of a performance, but I'm pretty sure that the cumulative effect of all the details can make a big difference to any listener.

Last edited by 1RC; 11/11/09 04:41 PM. Reason: clarify a murky wording
Re: how do you know you're good?
1RC #1303391 11/11/09 04:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
T
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
so if all classical pianist care is technical correctness and being as close as possible to original piece - why not to buy pianola...

[Linked Image]

Re: how do you know you're good?
tremens, delirium #1303401 11/11/09 05:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
S
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Oh, so your original question wasn't serious after all. Dang, we took the bait. frown

Steven

Re: how do you know you're good?
tremens, delirium #1303403 11/11/09 05:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
Originally Posted by tremens, delirium
so if all classical pianist care is technical correctness and being as close as possible to original piece - why not to buy pianola...

Because classical pianists are more interested in making music than hearing it, adding that spark of themselves to the correct notes and correct tempo and authenticity -

Oh, and I know I'm good because my 85 year old mother wants me to "learn something jazzy" so I "can get a job in a nightclub."
Bless her heart.


Slow down and do it right.
[Linked Image]
Re: how do you know you're good?
sotto voce #1303423 11/11/09 05:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
T
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Oh, so your original question wasn't serious after all. Dang, we took the bait. frown

Steven


it was serious, I'm really curious how classical pianist performance is evaluated. That's all. Is it really true if pianist misses the note but plays wonderfully otherwise can lose competition because of that?

Re: how do you know you're good?
tremens, delirium #1303433 11/11/09 05:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,393
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,393
Originally Posted by tremens, delirium
it was serious, I'm really curious how classical pianist performance is evaluated. That's all. Is it really true if pianist misses the note but plays wonderfully otherwise can lose competition because of that?

There are competitions and teachers who decide these kind of things. They determine what good is and who can rise to the cream of the crop. Once a stamp of approval is given, then the whole world knows they're good.

This is really an inane question because as Steven has aptly asked ... "what is good?" Is good how you feel after hearing a performance? Is it technical accuracy? Slippery slope here.

Re: how do you know you're good?
tremens, delirium #1303442 11/11/09 05:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,913
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,913
Originally Posted by tremens, delirium
in jazz music this is more simple to determine I guess
No. It's just as hard to determine in jazz as in classical.

In jazz, and in classical:
- Part is fact
- Part is opinion
- And "What is fact and what is opinion?" is opinion. frown

Why do you want to judge?

Why do you listen to music?


(I'm a piano teacher.)
Re: how do you know you're good?
david_a #1303566 11/11/09 08:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,784
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,784
The first step is to be able to discern good pianists from not good pianists. If you do not know the standards, you will not be able to judge whether a pianist is good or bad. For example, if you know how Mozart sonantas need to be played, you will be able to tell right away if a person plays Mozart sonantas with Beethoven style.

Bottom line, the more you know, the easier for you to discern not good pianists from the good ones. If you listen a lot to professional pianists, you will ,at least, gain the ability to hear the quality of professional pianist tones. Professional pianists have very clean tone and convincing sound.... Once you can discern this, you should go to Van Cliburn Youtube competition, you will hear the difference between real professionals and amateurs (Note: some of them are not really amateurs, they may confuse you a bit).

The same with say wine, the more you drink good wine, the easier for you to discern good wine from bad wine. But if you do not know anything about wine, all wine taste the same, and you will wonder how people determine good wine....



Last edited by RonaldSteinway; 11/11/09 08:40 PM.
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Estonia L225 loses tune very quickly
by M_albert - 10/20/20 01:49 AM
Piano Safari Christmas collection
by ebonykawai - 10/19/20 08:59 PM
Another "beginner" piece w/twist
by MilesAbbott - 10/19/20 08:58 PM
Sostenuto Pedal....in an upright?
by Duaner - 10/19/20 06:38 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,315
Posts3,015,360
Members98,949
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4