2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
92 members (36251, Anglagard44, AndrewJCW, anotherscott, aphexdisklavier, APianistHasNoName, ambrozy, accordeur, Abdol, 20 invisible), 897 guests, and 548 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
#1300440 11/06/09 11:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
S
SNC Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Hi. I live in Iowa, own a Yamaha U1, and am considering bumping up to a grand, primarily because one of my children shows a fair amount of talent and dedication.

My budget could stretch up toward about 35K. One possibility is a five year old Steinway M that has been used as a loaner piano, which is listed by a reputable local dealer at 39K. Were I to pursue this piano (which needs voicing and has minor cosmetic wear but seems to be in OK shape otherwise) I would certainly have an independent piano tech and a trained pianist check it over carefully for wear/damage and general potential. Beyond that, I have no concrete leads and am curious to hear your thoughts about options you might pursue in my situation. I should add that I have a fairly risk-averse personality! Thanks in advance!

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1300446 11/06/09 11:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 68
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 68
Seems fairly reasonable, SNC. I am looking at a five year old L for $44K, with tax and shipping included. I personally feel like the M is a bit too small and would not buy a Steinway smaller than an L or O, so if you could stretch your money a bit more, it might be worth it.

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1300450 11/06/09 12:03 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 48
M
MPP Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 48
35K could buy you a great piano. The overwhelming consensus from this forum, is to Play as many pianos as you can, be patient, and find the one you/your children really love.

You set your budget, great, but now you need to decide on furniture/finish, size, etc... then narrow down from there.

you state risk-averse, so you may want to consider new v. used (ie Warranty etc)

Good luck...


Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
MPP #1300460 11/06/09 12:18 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,846
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,846
Estonia 190, Mason AA, Shigeru Kawai would all be significantly larger than a Steinway M and should at least be tried IMO. I would personally choose all of them over an M, but it's your preference that counts. The best NYC rebuilders don't even stock many M's and virtually no S's.

I would also play new M's to see what effect "loaning' the piano has had. It could have gotten intensive use or much less.

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
MPP #1300461 11/06/09 12:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 153
F
Fun Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 153
Agree with MPP regarding buying new. 35K can buy you new 6 ft+ tier 2 piano from a few highly reputable brands. I would check them out along with used Steinways.


Estonia L190 in Pyramid Mahogany, Petrof 125F in Ebony Polished
Dark Love
Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
MPP #1300462 11/06/09 12:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,614
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,614
Disclaimer:
We are dealers for Estonia grands!

Estonia grands have recently been put into same tier group as New York Steinway - within your price range, you could be worth to check out some of their new 6'3 models.

Your price range allows for a number of other comparisons, but once in in a particular class of quality, you may as well check all equivalent options avaialable to you.

For recognizing some other brands within the highly respectable group 2 of "High Quality Performance Pianos", I am attaching this link of Larry Fine's most recent Piano Buyer.

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/e8ffb87c#/e8ffb87c/44

Good luck in your search!

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/06/09 12:24 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
Norbert #1300490 11/06/09 01:09 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,277
J
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,277
For $35K you can surely find a good used or rebuilt model B Steinway. For under $20K you can find a great used Baldwin SF or SD. There is blood in the streets. Use it to your advantage. Prices will never be lower....well... if unemployment hits 15% all bets are off!

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
Norbert #1300495 11/06/09 01:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
S
SNC Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Thanks for these suggestions thus far. I have the Fine book and the most recent supplement and have been reading around in them. I see where he says that the Steinway M is limited compared to the next-size model in some tonal areas. This local dealer mostly sells Steinway (and Boston/Essex) and Yamaha. So if I buy new, I'd have to go out of town to find someone who sells Estonia, Mason AA (I don't know this one--will have to check into it!), or Kawai (I thought the Shigeru were really expensive?). I'll try to figure out where that would be. Chicago is probably my closest option. The Yamaha C2 is another one we looked at (new); from what I gather, it would be a safe/reliable but not particularly inspired choice? It would be several thousand cheaper than the used M. Although my significant other would prefer a wood-grain finish over black, I'm not as concerned with appearance as touch/sound. And, as for size, I guess that's a big issue: is there a clear "cut-off" below which it is just best not to go if I don't want to have to upgrade again in four years (presuming that my daughter continues her development)? 5'8"? 5'10"? For a child who is studying classical music, is a bigger mass produced (but good quality like Yamaha or Kawai) piano generally going to be preferable to a smaller high-end brand? And for us parents who have some concerns about long-term investment value, what are the pros and cons of going with a well-known name like Steinway versus other brands like Estonia that are getting good reports but don't have the same widespread name recognition among non-professionals? Thanks again for your advice! It's hard to include all relevant info w/o making each posting overly long . . . .

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1300516 11/06/09 01:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 69
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 69
If you are coming to Chicago you should go to at least these 4 places: Pickle Pianos, Cordogans, Kurt Saphir, and PianoForte. All have an excellent selection of used and new in that price range. Kurt Saphir has the Mason Hamlins. Pickle and Cordogan's are both in Western suburbs so are about a 30 minute drive west of downtown. Kurt Saphir is in Wilmette (northern suburb). PianoForte is downtown.
Hope this helps

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1300519 11/06/09 01:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
S
SNC Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
One other thing: someone else told me that now is a great time to buy a Steinway. I didn't know if she really specifically meant Steinway, or whether she meant any good piano, or whether she meant any good piano manufactured in a country that's in an economic recession . . . . I also didn't know if she meant just new as opposed to used pianos. On the used market, for a rebuilt B, does it matter all that much when the piano was originally manufactured, or is the only real issue whether the wood/case seems to be in good condition? For example, I've seen ads for rebuilt Steinway Bs from the early 1900s but am worried about problems with the case cropping up that would be hard to detect . . . . I don't really trust my judgment, in the end, which is why I tend to gravitate toward new models or well-known brands. Maybe my goal is writing is to ask you to help me work up the courage to explore less-obvious options!

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1300550 11/06/09 02:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 68
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 68
Just to give you my experience, I chose a used Steinway L over a new Petrof and Estonia (although I am still debating getting the L or a B). I really believe Steinway is that much better. But you need to try the pianos for yourself before you can make such a decision.

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1300560 11/06/09 02:32 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
In a vintage remanufactured Steinway B,near EVERYTHING is replaced or should be with the exception of the case and the cast iron harp. It should be fairly obvious as for it's shortcomings. If you still feel insecure about the vintage era piano get a much newer restored one.ex.1950s-1990s. Or just get a newer preowned one.
John Pels and I seem to see eye to eye. grin


www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE
Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1300567 11/06/09 02:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
F
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
F
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
SNC, now is a great time to buy any piano. The state of our economy is more important than the country of manufacture, because pianos will be bought here.

Six feet is the approximate cutoff length, because that's where the bass should become richer, but there are no absolutes. Kawai's 5'10" RX-2 is a popular model.

Glad to learn that you're willing to consider other brands. So often people are in a rush to buy, when they would do better for themselves by accepting that an auditioning phase, which could be lengthy, should precede the buying phase.

carpediem has posted good leads for dealerships which should be within reasonable traveling distance for someone who's not in a rush to buy.

Kurt Safir carries the Charles Walter grands - a 190 and the newer 175. Both are high quality instruments, designed by Delwin Fandrich ("Del" on Piano World). Del very much prefers pianos which can be played softly as well as loudly. Both grands will have a particularly clear bass, which causes them to sound bigger than their size. (The reps can show you these pianos' longer backscales.) IMO raw power is overrated as a characteristic of pianos which will be played at home. The prices are similar and the street prices for both will be well under your preferred limit. The Walter grands are a little narrower than others, which gives them a particularly graceful appearance. They're also finished in lacquer. The subtle sheen of that finish is, IMO, preferable to polyester.

We love piano search stories. Please keep us updated.

Patience and persistence.









Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
John Pels #1300602 11/06/09 03:44 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,846
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,846
Originally Posted by John Pels
For $35K you can surely find a good used or rebuilt model B Steinway. For under $20K you can find a great used Baldwin SF or SD. There is blood in the streets. Use it to your advantage. Prices will never be lower....well... if unemployment hits 15% all bets are off!


At least in NYC, rebuilt B's by the best rebuilders were in the high 50K's a year ago. I don't know what they sold for in other places/rebuilders then, but I can't imagine they've come down anywhere near 35K today in NYC.

I just checked the web prices for some B's from a dealer that typically has inexpensive prices (but doesn't get rave quality reviews)and the B's were in the 45K range.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/06/09 03:49 PM.
Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1300633 11/06/09 04:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 66
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 66
SNC,

I don't believe I saw you mention a size limit. Personally, I'm limited to about 5'10" or so (178 mm), so I've been looking at things like the Yamaha C2 and Kawai RX-2. For 35K I suspect you can get into the Yamaha C5 range, and certainly the Kawai RX-3, perhaps RX-5. They are all too big for my house.

I also have the same problem you have in Iowa. I live on the Canadian prairies, and even though it's an urban area of 1.2 million, our selection of pianos is pathetic. We have Kawai, Petrof, M&H, Steinway and friends, and Yamaha and friends. I sure wish we could get some more exotic things like Sauter, Bechstein, Estonia, etc.

Last edited by shw123; 11/06/09 04:40 PM.

Pianist and Computer Nerd
Kawai GE-30
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-370
Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
shw123 #1300669 11/06/09 05:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 261
Hi SNC,

If you're anywhere near Ames, IA. You're welcome to stop by our house and play our M&H A.

If you're in Central Iowa, the nearest M&H dealer is in Minneapolis, MN which is a great city for piano shopping. You can find almost any brand within your budget there without going all the way to Chicago smile

Kuypers carries Kawai, Shigeru & Estonia. They're now in Pella, IA.

Search for some of my older posts and you should find more detailed info on dealers in MN and the brands that they carry.

Let me know if you have more questions. I'll be glad to help.

Regards,

Robert


Mason & Hamlin - A - 92514
Roland A-90 EX
"When you fall down,... pick up something!"
Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
Robert H #1300762 11/06/09 08:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 64
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 64
SNC,

You mentioned being worried about having to upgrade in a few years. I can tell you from experience that your daughter will not outgrow a Steinway M. It responds well to the most demanding reportoire. If you decide you prefer the tone of a larger piano, then that is a reason to look larger. The M is a lot of piano, and would not hold your daughter back regardless of the level she reaches.

Shopping in your price range is a lot of fun. Take your time, you will only have to do it once.

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1301213 11/07/09 05:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
S
SNC Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Thanks, everyone! I've taken down notes on specific models you mentioned and will begin with Fine to get more information. I think we probably ruled out the M today. A tech had serviced it since our last visit, but the sound felt too muted/muffled. I might still seek a second opinion from my daughter's teacher, but for now I'm going to drop that one down on the list and focus on an upcoming regional sales event by this dealer and also perhaps a trip to Pella or Chicago where I can test out other models. (Minneapolis sounds tempting but is quite a bit farther away.) Although I still like the idea of trying to keep the purchase local, I want to get experience with some of these other brands you mention. Btw, my living/dining room is roughly an L-shaped configuration. The living room is about 16 by 25 and the attached dining area is about 10 and a half by 15 feet. The dining area has a door into the kitchen and the living room has a wide opening into the front entrance hall and stairs going up. The ceiling in the living room area is vaulted. The area is carpeted (for the time being). So I guess that means my main size limitation is my pocketbook and our desire not to overwhelm the space (or our ears!). Again, thanks so much for taking time to offer suggestions.

Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
SNC #1301240 11/07/09 06:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
F
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
F
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
Re the size of the room, modern pianos do not lack for power. IMO grands should be played on full stick, if possible, because that's when their tones really bloom. If you should find yourself attracted to a smaller grand, there shouldn't be any problem with it suffusing the available space.


Re: Budget of about 35K for a grand . . .
FogVilleLad #1301303 11/07/09 09:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 387
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 387
SNC, I want to second what Fogvillelad has said about Walter pianos. A 190 I played this summer had such a wonderful blend of color in the tenor/treble over a tight bass. Is a new piano in your price-range that you should audition.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Searching for my first piano
by AndresVel - 01/16/21 03:34 PM
Tuning pin video
by accordeur - 01/16/21 03:22 PM
Concert pianist opintions regarding DP actions
by Marc345 - 01/16/21 02:50 PM
Size, placement, brand
by Anjru - 01/16/21 02:31 PM
KAWAI CA79 METRONOME
by Giovanni Zanini - 01/16/21 01:43 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,299
Posts3,047,419
Members100,079
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4