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Have you encountered challenging parents? I met my first difficult student's parent today... Grr!
> Student A packing up and preparing to leave.. > Parent of student A came up to ask questions about school curriculum and lesson.. > Told student B to start practicing first > Still answering Parent A's questionsSs..... took 10mins -_- > Parent B not happy that the lesson started 10mins late, sudden outburst of anger! "MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN TELLING ME THAT THE LESSON ALWAYS STARTS LATE AND ENDS ON TIME, WE ARE PAYING SO MUCH AND I THINK YOU NEED TO BETTER MANAGE YOUR TIME. YOU KNOW WE COULD HAVE GONE TO THE SCHOOL DOWNSTAIRS... etc......"
Parent B exaggerated the situation. -_- Told Parent B that today the exception that I started 10mins later. And that Parent B did see Parent A approached me after Student A's lesson (during Student B's lesson). It is not as if I used to the 10mins to teach Student A that caused Student B to start late isn't it! And I showed them the school clocked I used, which is actually 5 mins slower than the standard time.
Demanding parents just want to count to the every minute!
Came up with possible solutions. >To tell Parent A to raise her questions during Student A's lesson time so that it would not eat into the next lesson. >To look sincere in working things out, and apologise to Parent B, offering a make up of 30mins for the lost time. (I give much more than how much the time was lost!)
Any better suggestions? >.< Argh.
If only our job does not require us to deal with such annoying parents, don't you think so?!
Last edited by Phyliss; 10/31/09 05:01 PM.
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If it takes more than a minute or so, I ask the parent to call me outside of teaching hours. I've never had a parent protest this request.
I don't take any phone calls, or field lengthy parent questions during lessons. There just isn't time for it with 30 minute lessons, and I do insist we stay on schedule. Parents must also email me, or call outside of lesson times to reschedule a lesson. Luckily, I have other family members who can answer the phone and take messages. This works well for me.
Should you have a cancellation before or after this student's lesson, perhaps you could offer to have the student come early, or stay late.
Last edited by bondpiano; 10/31/09 04:43 PM.
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While not a teacher, I'm the one who put my brother in his lessons and the one who speaks with his teacher.
Now his schedule is a bit better because she doesn't have a student after him and he's there for about an hour and a half, but before, I'd just ask smaller "How's it going?" at the end of a lesson. Anything longer and I'd write her a note or call her, just like bondpiano mentioned.
I can't waste the next kid's time. You may say that they're counting for every minute - but chances are, so would you if you were in that position. It's not as if it's a two hour lesson that you can waste a few minutes or so. 3 minutes of 30 minutes is 10% of the lesson. It adds up after a while.
II. As in, second best. Only lowercase. So not even that. I teach piano and violin. BM, Violin & Percussion Performance 2009, Piano Pedagogy 2011.
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I also have the policy of not taking calls during lessons, and even have in my letter of intro that if they call during that time, they will need to leave a message.
I've only had one parent who tried to muscle in on another students' lesson to talk. I never left the piano, and talked to her as "an aside", making it clear that the lesson takes priority. (I told her I'd call her, but she keeps on talking.) After a couple minutes, my answer becomes, "I'll call you later. I need to teach now." Sometimes I had to repeat this several times before the parent finally would say, "I'll talk to you later - I know you're busy now." Duh.
That student, though, is now a former student. So I don't have that trouble any more.
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Phyliss, it is very difficult for younger teachers to exude an authoritative air, but you must!
When the next lesson begins, you must simply excuse yourself, politely of course, and turn to the new student. You do this by watching the clock and when it's coming up on a minute before the lesson, you need to say what's already been recommended, "I must start my next lesson now. If you would like to discuss this further, please call the studio/office during non teaching hours, and I'll be happy to pick up where we left off." Then turn to the new student and start the lesson. Ignore the parent. If they persist, you can say, "Please, how would you like it if another parent was interrupting your child's lesson? Call me later. Good bye."
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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I have had just one parent who tries to talk when the next student has arrived for a lesson. I tell her "I'd like to talk with you but I have a student now" and I either close the front door, or walk back into my studio which has glass doors which I keep closed once a lesson has begun. The parent has subsequently said "I'll call you" (and then doesn't call...this is the one who is either late or absent with no call etc.) I keep exactly to the schedule and it works for me. Parents know they can arrive early to see me.
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Yikes!
I don't deal well with these parents. I'd just dismiss the student. I prefer to live in peace.
Or you can give Student B the first lesson after school. That way, if they are late, you can just tell them "You're 4 minutes late. The lesson is now 26 minutes."
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Phyliss, 30 minutes goes by quickly for a piano lesson, so a parent taking some minutes away from the next student is inconsiderate on their part. It's a shame that you have to police the lesson time. You might offer Student B some make-up time that doesn't interfer with yours or your other student's schedules. You could also post time for "office calls" like the university or college professors do. If a parent must speak to you then they should only call you during that "posted time" or during their child's lesson.
Last edited by j&j; 10/31/09 09:53 PM.
J & J Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty Casio Privia P230 At least half the waiters in Nashville play better than I
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Could it be that the parent asking questions really has no clue that she is taking up lesson time for the next student? Some parents really do not get this. Put it in writing and hand this note out to each parent. Say something like, "Please feel free to phone me or set up an appointment during my office hours with any questions or concerns about your child's instruction. We do not want to talk through valuable lesson time". In the case of this particular parent, you may want to phone her to set up the meeting, rather than wait for her to do so. She may have lots of questions for you and/or want to be very involved with her child's lessons, which is a good thing IMO.
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Barb, whether she has a clue or not doesn't matter, the teacher must control the lessons.
However, I happen to agree with you that the parent probably doesn't have a clue. There are a number of possibilities why.
Here's a situation I faced today. Today was our teachers' association's Autumn Harvest Festival, which I MC'd. There were a total of three, 1PM, 2PM & 3PM. Because I was the organizer, I gave my parents notice in the monthly newsletter that the festival would begin at 1PM, that there would be several different times, and because of scheduling, their student might be scheduled as late as 4PM, so keep the afternoon free. As it turned out, all my students were at 3PM and I put this on the student's assignment sheets, in big bold font, which they couldn't miss. So, of course, mom shows up with two students at 1PM! ?????? So I ask mom, what I can do, short of telephoning every student, to remind them of recital time (and I should have added, attire, as they showed up looking like rag muffins). On top of this, student practiced wrong piece. How is this possible when we spent 35 minutes of lesson time (on Thursday, no less) fine tuning the recital number? I think the answer in this case is that mom is over-committed. Parents who are over committed tend to try to cram everything into their available time, not realizing that others have commitments.
This is probably what Phyliss is facing, a mom with precious few free minutes, who was probably grasping at an available minute she had free and not realizing that she was infringing on another student's time.
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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I understand Phyllis's problem here, but I must admit that I'm not particularly fond of the dismissive "if only our job ...."
Granted, I don't know all the surrounding details, but Phyllis, you have seemingly placed two parents' interests in conflict with each other and then defined them as the problem. Yes, they may have other personality issues that make them difficult to work with, but let me advocate for the devil for a moment.
If a teacher is punctual and develops a clear reputation for that, it's a lot easier to define the parent who is using up the next student's time as the problem. On the other hand, if a teacher has a more elastic concept of time then the boundaries of propriety are much murkier. If a student's lesson sometimes (or often) starts late, a parent talking to the teacher in the first few minutes of the next student's time can easily be thinking that it really is their time. Once time is elastic, the property right to it becomes elastic as well.
You can try to solve this issue with elaborate written policies that may or may not ever be thoroughly read and digested. But your own behavior ultimately will set the tone. If you make clear to people that lessons begin and end on time the problem largely will evaporate over time (pun intended). And if little problems like this occur, they will be controllable with very short reminders to people who transgress the boundaries. If you do not set such a tone, you increase the likelihood that different parents' own views will drive the process, and not always to your (or other parents) liking.
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I agree PianoDad. I do not think it is fair to blame the parents of either student in this case. yes, the Student A parent was taking up time of Student B, but the teacher allowed it to happen. I try to be mindful of the time, and to set my clock to what's on my computer (which updates itself and keeps time better than a regular wall clock). Sometimes I do go over a bit, and I'm sure to give those few minutes to the next student. I find that students will sometimes wait in the waiting area, and then only go to wash their hands at the beginning of their lesson, which also cuts down their time! I remind them it's OK to wash their hands during the other student's lesson.
I think we have to be good managers of our time. I think I will be discontinuing 30 minute lesson in the future, except for the very young student. This will allow me to have more time to get through materials. But I am still mindful of the clock when I teach these...the more time isn't more time to waste doing miscellaneous talks with parents (although one of them likes to talk before her son's lesson, which is fine, she's paying me to talk).
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Additional random thoughts - As others have stated, you need to take control, but this is difficult especially for those who are young or who otherwise are not used to "bossing." You might be able to say it bluntly: "I'm sorry, another parent is paying for this time. If you like, you can talk to me at the beginning of your child's lesson next week, or call me."
I also think that giving the second student a 20 minute lesson was wrong, and you owe them an apology, 10 more minutes, or a partial refund. If it is true that you always short shrift that particular student, it has probably been festering for awhile.
I do think it's helpful to discuss what "30 minutes" means at the very beginning. My daughter is a violinist. At her first lessons I was surprised at how little of the half hour was actually spent playing. It took time at the beginning to set up the vioin, tune it, get settled in the studio, etc. And time at the end for talking. It did frustrate me, because I was used to piano, where a full 30 mintues (and usually more) was spend on the instrument. I found myself, fairly or not, resenting every minute the teacher took to visit the bathroom, talk to the store manager, etc.
Some people culturally or personality-wise, have a more relaxed idea of time. I have a few of these students, and I have had to make a conscious decision to accommodate them or dismiss them. They aren't going to change. Since I like them, I have built an extra 15 minutes into my schedule between them and the next. Even so, they've ended up with some short lessons.
I had another parent whose time concepts were so vague that I often ended up with the child long after lesson had ended. That mother asked for the last lesson of the day, and I pointed out that I would not be willing to keep the child longer than quitting time, so if she came late to lesson it would be short, and if she picked her up late, it would not be okay.
I've also noticed that a number of my students express surprise when they encounter another student or parent. It's like they didn't realize they aren't my only student. Or if they encounter me outside of lessons - at the grocery store or something - they don't realize I have a life outside of lessons! I've even considered getting a kitchen timer to set on my piano. I often go over the lesson time. I have the room built into my schedule, but I would like them to be aware that they are getting extra!
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Another option is to schedule in buffer time. You could teach 40 minute lessons (tell the parents when they sign up that is the lesson length), but place the starting times in 45 minute blocks. That gives you some wiggle room.
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Yes, some of you are quite right. I am not used to bossing (yet), I just started teaching for 2 months! I have to learn to be more firm in dealing with these parents.
However right from the start when I joined the school, I was told (by other teachers around) that I should interact with the parents a min or two after the lesson to update the child's progress, so that we can work closely with the parents. Parents want to know how their child is doing, and their behaviors in class. While I find communicating with the parents important as well, there isn't any time in between before the next student comes in!
But many of you are right too. If i used the next student's time to interact with the previous parent, the next parent will probably hate me for taking up these time.
It is a difficult balance!
I find some of your suggestion quite useful, about calling and emailing me out of lesson time. Thank you!
Last edited by Phyliss; 11/01/09 11:45 AM.
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Barb, whether she has a clue or not doesn't matter, the teacher must control the lessons.
However, I happen to agree with you that the parent probably doesn't have a clue. There are a number of possibilities why.
Here's a situation I faced today. Today was our teachers' association's Autumn Harvest Festival, which I MC'd. There were a total of three, 1PM, 2PM & 3PM. Because I was the organizer, I gave my parents notice in the monthly newsletter that the festival would begin at 1PM, that there would be several different times, and because of scheduling, their student might be scheduled as late as 4PM, so keep the afternoon free. As it turned out, all my students were at 3PM and I put this on the student's assignment sheets, in big bold font, which they couldn't miss. So, of course, mom shows up with two students at 1PM! ?????? So I ask mom, what I can do, short of telephoning every student, to remind them of recital time (and I should have added, attire, as they showed up looking like rag muffins). On top of this, student practiced wrong piece. How is this possible when we spent 35 minutes of lesson time (on Thursday, no less) fine tuning the recital number? I think the answer in this case is that mom is over-committed. Parents who are over committed tend to try to cram everything into their available time, not realizing that others have commitments.
This is probably what Phyliss is facing, a mom with precious few free minutes, who was probably grasping at an available minute she had free and not realizing that she was infringing on another student's time. John, I completely agree with you that we teachers need to control the lesson time. We must be attentive to lesson time out of respect for each student. My thinking is that if the OP were to take control and initiate a meeting with the parent who talks through lesson time, this could help. I would not allow this parent to take up any more of another student's lesson time.
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I once had in my entry way 2 parents and their daughters.
It was 3:15 not 3:00 when the first one should have arrived, and not 3:30 when the first one would have left and the second one would have arrived on time.
Both came in the door within minutes of one another: The 3:30 arrived first, early, the mother and daughter were very angry with each other, the mother said, "She quits, right now, you are not going to see her again!"
The door opens and the other parent comes in almost in tears: She says, "This just isn't working, the traffic is really nasty today and I'm tired of racing through it and my daughter just isn't ready at school when I pick her up and we hurry to get here. I hate being late!" She flings herself on my livingroom couch and sobs into her hands.
I don't know what to say or to whom to say it first. I'm more than frustrated and all I've done is wait nicely for my afternoon of teaching to start.
So I tell the mother who is quitting that I will call her and we will talk and she says "Don't bother!" and slams the door on her way out.
The other lady is turning red and gasping. I tell her daughter to call her father (I know he's at their store) and have him come over immediately. I am thinking maybe I need to call 911. He arrives, takes his family home, without a word to me.
Neither family ever gave me another opportunity to talk with them about their lessons and the circumstances that we endured in the entry way.
I sent them both plants by florist with a note saying "I'm so sorry we had this problem". It was to no avail.
The first mother who "quit" didn't tell me what I later heard from another teen student: the police had come to the high school and arrested her daughter and she was ultimately sent to juvenile detention to serve some time due to drugs on campus.
The other mother was frustrated for the reasons she said and her health was causing compromises to her when she would get upset. She had a home, lots of chauffering long distance for her kids, a retail business to manage, and some dogs she was training in a support program.
So, some times, we don't realize how over the top things can get for parents, and some times there is not a darn thing we can do about it. We have to remain objective about ourselves and about our teaching and not be upset with ourselves when there were things that impacted us in a bad way but for which we were not responsible.
You don't want to have a discussion in the heat of the moment. It is better to let a little bit of time go by so that each participant comes to the conversation without emotional extremes being part of it.
This took a lot out of me that day but I was ready for my next lesson at 4:00 which thankfully was a normal day. It took a long time for this to resolve in my mind. It's now been long enough so that I can speak about it for the first time.
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My gosh, Betty, that is an upsetting experience to say the least! It was very kind of you to send them flowers. And also very wise to know that none of what happened was at all your fault. As teachers, I find we tend to take things on as our fault when they really aren't at all: parents dropping off students late to lessons, no-showing lessons, expecting us to magically "make" the students love piano, on and on. We need to continually remind ourselves that others' behavior is not our fault, as we tend to our business and make our studios and teaching as good and efficient as it can be.
Recently, 2 students arrived for a lesson at the same time, parents with them. One parent had rescheduled her child's lesson for the following day. So I filled her spot that she usually has. Both parents gabbed about this for close to 5 minutes, while I coaxed the student who was supposed to be there for her lesson into the studio.
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However right from the start when I joined the school, I was told (by other teachers around) that I should interact with the parents a min or two after the lesson to update the child's progress, so that we can work closely with the parents. Parents want to know how their child is doing, and their behaviors in class. While I find communicating with the parents important as well, there isn't any time in between before the next student comes in!
So stop the lesson sooner. If the parent arrives early you can start talking with them 5 minutes before the lesson time is up to let them know how their child is doing, what you've worked on, etc. Make sure this time doesn't cut into the next student's time. That way both parents are getting what they want.
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Betty, that is completely unbelievable. I might quit teaching if that ever happened to me. Your way of handling it was very professional!
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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