Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner To rank the Chopin Ballades, Scherzos, Barcarole and Fantasy

Hi. I registered here to post this stupid question.

How would you rank the 4 Ballades, 4 Bcherzos, the Barcarole and the Fantasy (in F minor) in the order of preference? Which piece you like the best, which second best and so on.

Those 10 pieces can be considered a group. Playing them lasts about 7-13 minutes. That makes them bigger than Waltzes, Nocturnes, Etudes etc, but they are not on the same league than Sonatas or Piano Concertos.

If you are to post your opinion, a simple list is just fine for me. Explanations are appreciated but not necessary.

I don't want to call your question stupid, but when I saw the title of this thread I did think that you were proposing to rank this collection of compositions by difficulty. That would have some practical value that I really don't see in a hypothetical listing by "preference."

I think everyone familiar with Chopin has favored categories of works, preferred pieces within each category, and an opinion about the appeal of the standalone pieces as well. But to try to grade the collective diversity of pieces on a sliding scale of personal allure doesn't quite make sense to me!

Steven

Steven, would you care to rank them by difficulty? That's what I was hoping for when I clicked on the thread.

I agree with Steven that the diversity of preferences would be somewhat useless as that depends too much on personal taste. Ranking by difficulty might make more sense tho that too could be very questionable since what is difficult for one person might present little problem to another.

"Useless" maybe, but "of interest to some" probably. I think people constantly discuss which pieces they like/dislike and ranking them is another version of this. I would say that trying to put them in a precise 1-10 order is not possible for some, including me.

Faves: Barcarolle, Scherzo #4, Ballade #4
Least faves: Scherzo #2, Ballade #1

I don't know if I'm up to it! All the usual caveats would apply about different people of different backgrounds and skills having different experiences of what's relatively hard or relatively manageable, that's for sure.

Even so, there's such a variety of tempi and pianistic devices that such a ranking seems like an arbitrary mixture of hard apples and tough oranges. (Also, despite my familiarity with these pieces, I haven't actively worked on the majority of them; my assessment would be based more on impression than experience).

Another thought occurs to me as well. The OP obviously set the parameter here of these 10 pieces exclusively, but a list of Chopin's compositions that are bigger than the Waltzes, Nocturnes, Etudes and Preludes but not multi-movement works like the Sonatas or Concertos would be a longer one than just these ten; notably missing are the final three Polonaises and the Allegro de Concert.

And what about the Rondos, the Bolero and the Op. 12 Variations? And if we include those early yet lengthy works, perhaps we should include the four Concert Pieces and the Cello Polonaise as well.

Steven

Quick answer - could elaborate more later:

From most difficult to least - IMO, and mostly on technical merits:

- Fantasie
- 4th Scherzo
- 4th Ballade
- Barcarolle
- 2nd Scherzo
- 1st Ballade
- 2nd Ballade
- 3rd Scherzo
- 1st Scherzo
- 3rd Ballade


Personal preference from like the most to like the least:

- 4th Scherzo
- 3rd Ballade
- Barcarolle
- 2nd Ballade
- 2nd Scherzo
- 3rd Scherzo
- 4th Ballade
- 1st Ballade
- 1st Scherzo
- Fantasie

Dupe

This is my difficulty ranking in order of increasing challenge:

Scherzo Op. 20
Barcarolle Op. 60
Ballade Op. 47
Scherzo Op. 31
Scherzo Op. 39
Ballade Op. 23
Fantaisie Op. 49
Scherzo Op. 54
Ballade Op. 38
Ballade Op. 52

A ranking by preference is impossible for me.

Steven

Preference

Barcarolle
Ballade 1
Ballade 2
Ballade 4

Not that familiar with the rest.

Phlebas -

I find it interesting that you rank the Fantasy as being the most difficult. I've performed the Fantasy and find it easier than several of the other compositions on the list - all of which, with the exception of Ballade No. 2, I have yet to learn. (I've dabbled with most of them, however.)

Just curious - is your ranking based on your personal experience in performing each of these pieces - or is it simply based on your perception of their difficulty?

It's based on some personal experience (I've played the 2nd Ballade, 4th Ballade, and 3rd Scherzo), having read through the others a lot, etc.
Also, it's based what I would find difficult.

If you've played the Fantasie, then I would defer to you, but I think it is difficult to perform well - keep it structurally together, etc. I also think the passagework is fairly difficult. I would think the Fantasie takes some more stamina - compared to some of the others on the list. Did you find that to be the case?

I was simply asking for opinions. There is no question mark at the end of the name of the topic, because there was no space for it. This kind of listing might be stupid and empty and whatever, but it is something I have always done.

These 10 pieces are also considered a kind of a group by the Chopin Competition bosses. At the stage II, a contestant must play one piece out of these 10 pieces.
Also, I don't know the Rondos or Bolero so I cannot include them here.

I myself cannot answer much to my own initial question. Ballade 3 and Barcarole are my two faves, and Ballade 4 might be 3rd favourite, although I'm quite sick about it right now.
Scherzo 1 is easily the weakest imo, but I cannot evaluate much the rest of the pack.

I've played only about half of these, (couple of ballade and scherzi) but of all I've played, I have to say that the Barcarolle has remained the most challenging for me technically and musically, and is also my favorite. I think the Barcarolle is hard to play well.

I think for me, the Barcarolle may be the best thing Chopin ever wrote. There are a couple of sections in there that make me weep!

I like the first Scherzo, the third Ballade, and the Fantasy the best but I'm usually in the minority when I say that.

I didn't think the Fantasy looked as difficult as the ballades. I wanted to learn it senior year... now I'm having second thoughts!

Don't have second thoughts! I share carey's surprise that the Fantaisie's difficulties are frequently overrated. While the connecting passages with the triplet figures that ascend and then descend in consecutive measures were a challenge for me, as was nailing the spots with fairly large octave jumps in contrary motion, I had no other significant problems.

Stamina doesn't seem like an important issue because the duration of the piece is offset by such a variety of textures; furthermore, the Lento sostenuto is a well-placed opportunity to relax and recharge. And of course the piece is difficult to play well—like every other one in that group.

I said I wouldn't rank them by preference, but I'll concede that the Fantaisie would be very near the top of my list. I think it contains some of Chopin's very finest music, and learning it was consistently absorbing and rewarding. Believe me, it's a lot of fun to practice and to play.

Steven

I remember a master class with Fialkowska where she more or less said that she felt the last pages of the Barcarolle were the greatest passages Chopin wrote.

I'm with sparkler on this one. Come to think of it, the Barcarolle is probably my favourite Chopin piece. And with this piece, i enjoy such different interpretations as Sofronitsky's from Zimerman's can be, something that doesn't happen to me with that many works.

My favorites are the 1st Ballade, 3rd Scherzo, and Fantasy.

Per Phlebas - "If you've played the Fantasie, then I would defer to you, but I think it is difficult to perform well - keep it structurally together, etc. I also think the passagework is fairly difficult. I would think the Fantasie takes some more stamina - compared to some of the others on the list. Did you find that to be the case?

Phlebas - I concur completely with Steven's response above.