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Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: AJF] #1290907
10/20/09 08:48 PM
10/20/09 08:48 PM
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torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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Quote
maybe 'pitiful' wasn't the best choice of adjectives.


No it wasn't, and I believe you actually said "pitiful at best". I know your "professional pianist" credentials mean a lot to you, but I don't think it matters whether you're a professional pianist or a professional steampipefitter. That wasn't the best choice of words.

It's not difficult to declare a favorite between two pianos without slamming the other. No real need to slam the C2 or to irritate its owners.


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Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: turandot] #1290915
10/20/09 09:03 PM
10/20/09 09:03 PM
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AJF Offline
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I consider the bass on the C2's I've played to be seriously deficient for musical purposes. You call my opinion 'slamming' I call it being frank from a place of honesty. I Do take my professional credentials seriously. I've worked my ass off for thousands and thousands of hours at the piano which earns me the right to put a little stock in my opinions. If you've got a pain in your stomach do you ask advice from your neighbour who watches the discovery network and fancies himself an armchair physician or do you go to your doctor who has a medical licence and graduated from medical school?
Why is it that when someone here has a strong opinion about a topic someone inevitably jumps in and calls it ' slamming?'

Last edited by AJF; 10/20/09 11:47 PM.


Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: AJF] #1290919
10/20/09 09:11 PM
10/20/09 09:11 PM
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Stratford, Ontario, Canada
Louis H. Bousquet Offline
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Story of my life AJF. I am so thankful now that someone knows my pain about being put on the chopping block for having an opinion that doesn't fit a stereo type. You and I should start a club or something. LOL


Louis Bousquet
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: Louis H. Bousquet] #1290927
10/20/09 09:52 PM
10/20/09 09:52 PM
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torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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Indeed! With Adrean's credentials and your pure class, it would be awesome!!!



Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: AJF] #1290935
10/20/09 10:12 PM
10/20/09 10:12 PM
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Dandelion Offline OP
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In which year Yamaha started to produce C2M, 2006? 2007?

Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: Marty Flinn] #1290945
10/20/09 10:36 PM
10/20/09 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty Flinn
In the last 18-24 months Yamaha has made changes in the C2 to bring it more in line with the C3 and larger pianos. Changes included the use of Ivorite synthetic ivory and ebony key tops and vertically laminated bridges. Older C2s will not have these upgrades.


cruiser, I saw your new C2M photos posted in March. What a beauty!

Since Marty said C2's improvement came in the last 18-24 months, I assume a 2004 C2 is an "L".

Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: turandot] #1290956
10/20/09 11:02 PM
10/20/09 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by turandot
Indeed! With Adrean's credentials and your pure class, it would be awesome!!!

Originally Posted by turandot
Indeed! With Adrean's credentials and your pure class, it would be awesome!!!



come on! Someone with your commanding wit can't come up with something better? I'm a little disappointed.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: AJF] #1291028
10/21/09 03:33 AM
10/21/09 03:33 AM
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To be honest guys, I know most of you have BIG pianos but I find some comments really 'pitiful' . Some people have smaller budgets and are not professional pianist, this does not mean that smaller pianos are not musical or no good!

I have a very tiny piano in your eyes, for me it is big enough and the bass annoys the neighbors already so a 'bigger' bass isn't always better! The bigger is better mentality on this forum is very exhausting, some people live in a normal size home, not in some concert avenue, you must understand that! Some people also have other interest besides pianos, like vacation, or kids or any other money consuming hobbies. Not everyone can loan a fortune and live on it's great size piano only, there is more to life you know.....

We come to PW because we love pianos and making music, no need to get snobby about it! Pianos come in all sizes, it has a size for everyone!

Tnxs


Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: Dandelion] #1291075
10/21/09 06:39 AM
10/21/09 06:39 AM
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Hampshire, England
ChrisVenables Offline
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Originally Posted by Dandelion
Originally Posted by Marty Flinn
In the last 18-24 months Yamaha has made changes in the C2 to bring it more in line with the C3 and larger pianos. Changes included the use of Ivorite synthetic ivory and ebony key tops and vertically laminated bridges. Older C2s will not have these upgrades.


cruiser, I saw your new C2M photos posted in March. What a beauty!

Since Marty said C2's improvement came in the last 18-24 months, I assume a 2004 C2 is an "L".


Yes, the Ls were phased out end 2007. They're still a good piano though, with a decent bass for the size. The tonal improvements between the L and M are more noticeable in the treble section where the bridge was improved.

The 'ebony' sharps Marty referred to are not real ebony, but a wood composite look alike. (Good though)

Patrick - I agree with you, your GC1 is a great piano - who plays that bottom octave anyway?


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Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: turandot] #1291080
10/21/09 06:49 AM
10/21/09 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by turandot
Indeed! With Adrean's credentials and your pure class, it would be awesome!!!


As long as you would be barred from participating, I'd be happy to join that club. grin Some people like to play arbiter over others. Where are your credentials that enable you to do so? It can't be your skills at the keyboard. grin

Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: SeilerFan] #1291094
10/21/09 07:39 AM
10/21/09 07:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 798
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William is on a mission to have the highest post count of anyone on pw. That's all.

Dandelion,

If you are having a difficult time choosing between a c2 and a c3, you REALLY ought to check out a Kawai RX2.

Several reasons for this:
It is directly in between the size of the c2 and c3 at 5'10. Most folks would agree that those extra 2 inches (over the C2 at 5'8) make a significant difference in the bass.

Kawais and yamahas have the same level of quality, although they have slightly different tonal philosophies behind them. Most people characterize Yamahas as inherently 'brighter', with Kawais being more on the 'mellow' side.

The new Kawais now have the Millenium 3 action, which is said to be among the best in the world.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Kawais tend to be slightly more affordable than Yamahas, and you SHOULD be able to acquire an RX2 of the same vintage as the C2's you're considering for a thousand or two less.

Almost as big as a C3....cheaper than a C2.
Definitely something to consider.

If you have your mind set on Yamaha, you have my (another professional pianist, for what it's worth) vote for the C3. It's really QUITE a bit more piano than the C2.

Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: JustAnotherPianist] #1291164
10/21/09 09:20 AM
10/21/09 09:20 AM
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torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherPianist
William is on a mission to have the highest post count of anyone on pw. That's all.


Notjustanother,

Nah. I don't post so much. It's just that for reasons completely unknown to me, some of my posts seem to irritate people. grin

Look, if Dandelion likes the C3, he should have a C3. If he prefers the C2, he should have a C2. I agree with you completely that he should also consider other alternatives, but I won't mention any so as to stay within the parameters of his question. I agree too that the C3 is more than the C2. Whether it offers more value to a particular user in a particular home installation is another question.

You really ought to work on your post count! smile


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: turandot] #1291349
10/21/09 02:44 PM
10/21/09 02:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Southern California
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Dandelion Offline OP
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Thank you, JustAnotehrPianist. The reason I have been talking about Yamaha C2 or C3 is there are a few private sales locally right now. I will consider a Kawai RX2 also for sure.

Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: JustAnotherPianist] #1292308
10/23/09 08:51 AM
10/23/09 08:51 AM
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William is on a mission to have the highest post count of anyone on pw. That's all.

Dandelion,

If you are having a difficult time choosing between a c2 and a c3, you REALLY ought to check out a Kawai RX2.

Several reasons for this:
It is directly in between the size of the c2 and c3 at 5'10. Most folks would agree that those extra 2 inches (over the C2 at 5'8) make a significant difference in the bass.

Kawais and yamahas have the same level of quality, although they have slightly different tonal philosophies behind them. Most people characterize Yamahas as inherently 'brighter', with Kawais being more on the 'mellow' side.

---*What??? They are completely different pianos and built very differently. Tonal philosophies different? That's a head scratcher. My assumption is that both companies are striving for the richest tone possible. Why would you think otherwise? The whole brighter vs. warmer tone argument holds no water anymore. Ten years ago, yes. Test it out...have a friend blindfold you and then play them and judge for yourself*.


The new Kawais now have the Millenium 3 action, which is said to be among the best in the world.

---*Do you have a source for this*?


Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Kawais tend to be slightly more affordable than Yamahas, and you SHOULD be able to acquire an RX2 of the same vintage as the C2's you're considering for a thousand or two less.

---*Actually they are much farther apart in price than you think, so yes, the Kawai is cheaper*.


Almost as big as a C3....cheaper than a C2.
Definitely something to consider.

If you have your mind set on Yamaha, you have my (another professional pianist, for what it's worth) vote for the C3. It's really QUITE a bit more piano than the C2. [/quote]

---*Based upon what exactly? 5 inches? Yeah, it will have more projection and a little more bass. What specific parts are you referring to as "quite a bit" more piano than the C2? I want specifics not just hearsay or your "professional opinion"*.


Choleric
Yamaha CVP307 digital piano
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: choleric] #1293369
10/25/09 11:51 AM
10/25/09 11:51 AM
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I went to our local Kawai dealer yesterday. New RX2 and RX3 both sell for around $17,000-$18,000 - $1000 rebate. I will visit Yamaha deals this week. I am sure New C2 and C3 are more expensive, according to others here. Then I will have to find an older one to fit my budget.

Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: pno] #1293889
10/26/09 08:58 AM
10/26/09 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pno
C2 and C3 use the same action assembly. Pull out the actions from both, you will see the C2/C3 stamps on them.


Is this a design change? My C3 action is stamped C3/C5


I. Bruton
B.A. Music Composition
M.M. Music Education
High School Choral Director
Church Music Director
Pianos owned: Yamaha C3
Pianos at work: Yamaha P22, Kawai K3, Steinway B
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: I. Bruton] #1293962
10/26/09 10:16 AM
10/26/09 10:16 AM
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♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
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♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Originally Posted by I. Bruton
Originally Posted by pno
C2 and C3 use the same action assembly. Pull out the actions from both, you will see the C2/C3 stamps on them.


Is this a design change? My C3 action is stamped C3/C5


It could be. Which year is your piano? Mine is 2008.

Or it could be just Yamaha's trick to make us all think that our piano is better than it actually is. A C5 action could be stamped C5/C6, a C6 stamped C6/C7, a C7 stamped C7/CFIIIS. ;-)

Anyway, other than the stamp, my tech (who is very experienced in Yamaha) confirmed C2/C3 share the same action.


Last edited by pno; 10/26/09 10:17 AM.

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Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: pno] #1294060
10/26/09 11:55 AM
10/26/09 11:55 AM
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C1 and C2 share the same action,the C3 and the C5 have a different action,the C6 and C7 also.
You get what you pay for, the more expensive the piano, the more time they spend on the action and the better componants they use.


Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: Konzert Patrick] #1294147
10/26/09 01:38 PM
10/26/09 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by GC1Patrick
C1 and C2 share the same action,the C3 and the C5 have a different action,the C6 and C7 also.


GC1Patrick, I trust my own eyes and I trust my own tech who is also Yamaha Canada's event tech!

If you don't mind, let me know where you get your information. Not that it is anything important.


♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: pno] #1294173
10/26/09 02:12 PM
10/26/09 02:12 PM
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No need to get offended PNO.

I got the information from my Yamaha dealer when I was looking to upgrade my GC1 to a C2 silent last year. I asked for the differences between the models and he explained them to me. All the details on the actions, the different woods used in the soundboards, different hammer qualities etc.
(This is why I. Bruton his action says C3/C5, just as my dealer explained)
I then decided if I want to upgrade I should wait for the C3 (if I ever upgrade)as the GC1/C1 and C2 are in the same "league" sound wise, the bass is better on the C2 ofcourse then on the GC1/C1 due to its lenght but the strings start to resonate better when the are a bit longer like on the C3. Also the sounds from the GC1/C1 and the C2 are projected to the player (more intimate) the C3 projects it sound more into the room and then back to the player.

Ofcourse all of this info is a year old.

So, here you go, my "un important" information... grin


Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition
Re: Difference between Yamaha C2 and C3, besides 3 inches [Re: Konzert Patrick] #1294365
10/26/09 07:18 PM
10/26/09 07:18 PM
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I am not offended. I am just wondering the contradictory information.

Bruton's C3 is more than 10 years old (1997). So I am not surprised things have changed a bit.

It is very possible that C1/C2 started out using the same action but at least from the L line and now the M line, the C2 and C3 share the same action. Based on the information from Yamaha's website, the L line was produced from 1999-2007, and the M after 2007. So things must have changed in 2 generations.

As for the bass, to be honest the magical point starts at 6 and a half feet to seven feet. Anything less just doesn't have that true deep bass (not just louder bass), regardless brands including the most expensive ones. That is my opinion.





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YAMAHA C2M PE
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