Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
118 registered members (AssociateX, A Guy, akressevich, 90125, anotherscott, AlienObs, Alex Hutor, 7uturu, 24 invisible), 1,357 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Mati] #1292854
10/24/09 09:11 AM
10/24/09 09:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 820
Georgia
L
Lollipop Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lollipop  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 820
Georgia
Well, Mati. I'm impressed. You must be incredibly determined to play like that, mostly self-taught. I would like to know how you did it, so I can bottle it and sell it.


piano teacher
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Lollipop] #1292861
10/24/09 09:29 AM
10/24/09 09:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,286
Lodz, Poland
Mati Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mati  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,286
Lodz, Poland
Thanks Lollipop, I'm flattered. I'm just a guy who things nothing is impossible - but also with a mind of engineer (which I am, considering my computer science studies at the university). I have noticed that without systematic work on my technique and theory from ground up, I will sooner or later hit a wall and I won't be able to progress any further. It took time to notice that and get serious about piano - but the time before was also very enjoyable on its own.

My father plays guiter and harmonica for his own enjoyment, he never took any lessons. He knows nothing about music theory. Perhaps that's why I started piano without thinking about the proper learning method. You certainly can go somewhere that way! Perhaps its never too late to learn it properly, as long as no severe bad habits are involved, and these can be avoided with help of a teacher.

M.


Mateusz Papiernik
My youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maticomp
"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight
Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)
[Linked Image]
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: SueKZ] #1292904
10/24/09 11:23 AM
10/24/09 11:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 97
Colorado
S
SueKZ Offline OP
Full Member
SueKZ  Offline OP
Full Member
S

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 97
Colorado
UrbanSpice and dundundiddle:

Thanks so much for those great ideas of music for my 15 yr. old student. I listened to all of them online and printed out sample partial copies of some of them. This is exactly what she will like, I am sure. I really appreciate all your help!


Sue
Private Piano Teacher since 2009
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: SueKZ] #1292913
10/24/09 11:41 AM
10/24/09 11:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,483
Santa Fe, NM
J
jotur Offline
Gold Level
jotur  Offline
Gold Level
J

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,483
Santa Fe, NM
Great post, Mati. I think there are many people who approach learning things the way you approached piano, and you described it really well. I do most things that way myself smile And I think you are right that a, IMHO, big risk of forcing someone to do it the "right" way is that they'll not do it all. Although, as the ABF shows, many of them will come back later, do it the way their temperament and interest and learning style suits, either find a formal teacher that appreciates them or other ways of progressing, and love every moment of learning and playing smile

So don't apologize or call it silly, either learning this way or posting here. It's good to be reminded that we're not all alike, and to have such an articulate insight into another style of learning.

And I love your music smile

Cathy


Cathy
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Practice what you suck at - anonymous
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Mati] #1292943
10/24/09 12:42 PM
10/24/09 12:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,313
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Online blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012
Monica K.  Online Blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,313
Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted by Mati

For me it was starting from behind (which is silly, I know) - but it resulted in my true love both for playing the piano, and learning the music properly from the ground. I believe I could have been daunted and I could have lost interest if I would have been "forced" to go with proper method. Reason? I perhaps wouldn't be able to play anything meaningful to me at that time quickly enough to encourage me for further work...
I just wanted to say, that love for piano is the most important factor. And having a young girl who wants to play the piano but is discouraged by the amount of theory brings a question to the table, how to work with her. I wanted to suggest that sometime it may be beneficient to sustain her love for piano, doing less theory than one would do normally, just to make her want to learn it on her own in due course.


Mati,
Thank you so much for sharing your story... it’s not a “ridiculous” post at all. Instead, I think you are a wonderful example of what I have advocated for a long time, which is that there is more than one route to piano and music. The formal ‘method series with theory, scales, etc.’ approach works for many people. But it doesn’t work for everybody. And I agree completely with you that it is important to nurture a love and enthusiasm for playing piano, because without that, students are not likely to persevere in their studies.

You don’t have anything to apologize for. Yours is a valid perspective and a useful counter-example for those who believe there is only one right way to approach piano lessons. smile

Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Monica K.] #1293040
10/24/09 05:03 PM
10/24/09 05:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
B
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Betty Patnude  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
Thank you, Mati, for your excellent response.

I see passion, purpose and commitment from what you have said about your journey.

I just find it very difficult to understand how to get to an end result that is magnificent piano literature without have completely prepared the way to do so.

Is there anything else you can tell me about yourself? For instance, are you identified as a genius? What has frustrated you the most musically in the last 5 years? Has it been important to you to have music vocabulary or music theory concepts to help with your understanding?

In teacher's lingo, the beginner is someone who started piano study from scratch, but who now can has learned to play hands together in simple literature, counts well, readys music and plays in Keys of C and possible G and F, for an octave in teach direction from Middle C. This level encompasses preparatory, early elementary and elementary levels fo study. At Late Elementary and early intermediate, the student begins to work on expressiveness, good use of dynamics and interpretive skills.

By late intermediate level, the easier of the master classics are possible. With more years of study, the advanced level and performance level open the doors to all music literature - covering any and all written notes possible on the music page and playable on the keyboard.

In piano teaching, the onus is on comprehension of reading and executing with accuracy on the piano. Each step of the way requires progress to that point before moving on to more difficult music. Obviously you worked alone outside of this process. I can be grateful that you were not a quitter and that you were not completely defeated by frustration. Perhaps the question is about how you stayed positive and got to where you are?

Doing what you love is always a great path to be on.

Best wishes,

Betty

Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Betty Patnude] #1293063
10/24/09 05:33 PM
10/24/09 05:33 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member
currawong  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
Originally Posted by Betty Patnude

In teacher's lingo, the beginner is someone who started piano study from scratch, but who now can has learned to play hands together in simple literature, counts well, readys music and plays in Keys of C and possible G and F, for an octave in teach direction from Middle C. This level encompasses preparatory, early elementary and elementary levels fo study. At Late Elementary and early intermediate, the student begins to work on expressiveness, good use of dynamics and interpretive skills.

By late intermediate level, the easier of the master classics are possible. With more years of study, the advanced level and performance level open the doors to all music literature - covering any and all written notes possible on the music page and playable on the keyboard.

In piano teaching, the onus is on comprehension of reading and executing with accuracy on the piano. Each step of the way requires progress to that point before moving on to more difficult music. Obviously you worked alone outside of this process. I can be grateful that you were not a quitter and that you were not completely defeated by frustration. Perhaps the question is about how you stayed positive and got to where you are?

Betty, by no means every musician follows that path you describe as the ideal. You may have a systematic program mapped out for your students (in fact, I think you should have) but there are many people who arrive at similar places without systematic instruction from a teacher over a number of years, and the process does not always entail frustration. Note that I'm not recommending anything, simply observing.

My own instruction was far from systematic, logical or step-by-step in the way you describe, but by the time I was in my twenties I was an accomplished pianist with diplomas and degrees, and maybe all the better for having ferreted a lot of my knowledge out for myself.

I suppose all I'm saying is that, as others have said, there is no single way to pianistic excellence. We teach in a way which we consider to be best for our students - but we shouldn't be too amazed if some of them manage some things on their own, or sometimes even do well in spite of our instruction! smile


Du holde Kunst...
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Betty Patnude] #1293078
10/24/09 06:02 PM
10/24/09 06:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,313
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Online blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012
Monica K.  Online Blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,313
Lexington, Kentucky
Originally Posted by Betty Patnude
Each step of the way requires progress to that point before moving on to more difficult music. Obviously you worked alone outside of this process. I can be grateful that you were not a quitter and that you were not completely defeated by frustration. Perhaps the question is about how you stayed positive and got to where you are?


I'm guessing Mati was able to stay positive because he wasn't listening to somebody like you telling him what was "required" for progress in piano and that he couldn't get where he wanted to be in piano following the path he chose.

Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Monica K.] #1293083
10/24/09 06:10 PM
10/24/09 06:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 820
Georgia
L
Lollipop Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lollipop  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 820
Georgia
Just guessing here, but I read Betty's post as in response to Mati's claim that he was a beginner. She was just trying to say that most of us teachers do not define beginner as someone who plays what he is playing.

I don't think she intended it as a floorplan for every student. But it does help to have a general idea of what consititutes a beginner level, what is intermediate, etc.


piano teacher
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Lollipop] #1293096
10/24/09 06:37 PM
10/24/09 06:37 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member
currawong  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
Originally Posted by Lollipop
Just guessing here, but I read Betty's post as in response to Mati's claim that he was a beginner. She was just trying to say that most of us teachers do not define beginner as someone who plays what he is playing.

I don't think she intended it as a floorplan for every student. But it does help to have a general idea of what consititutes a beginner level, what is intermediate, etc.
Perhaps you're right smile. What is intended is not always what comes across however, so I thought my point was worth making.
I personally don't tend to sort by beginner/intermediate/advanced so much, so it seemed a bit rigid to me.


Du holde Kunst...
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Betty Patnude] #1293099
10/24/09 06:44 PM
10/24/09 06:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,286
Lodz, Poland
Mati Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Mati  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,286
Lodz, Poland
Originally Posted by Betty Patnude
Thank you, Mati, for your excellent response.

I see passion, purpose and commitment from what you have said about your journey.


Thanks Betty. I feel relieved, as I didn't want to insult anyone in this thread, yet my post was jumping out of the blue and for the brief moment I thought I shouldn't have written what I did.

Originally Posted by Betty Patnude

I just find it very difficult to understand how to get to an end result that is magnificent piano literature without have completely prepared the way to do so.


I think there is some analogy to two counter theories about learning scales, both known for a very long time. Some great teachers of the past advocated scales study, while others thought enough amount of scales is employed in actual music literature.

My case is much more radical, but idea stays basically the same. I begun playing the piano with strong belief that everything I need, I will find in pieces.

Originally Posted by Betty Patnude

Is there anything else you can tell me about yourself? For instance, are you identified as a genius?


No, not at all. Although I'm definitely a scientific mind. I always had strong affinity towards science - maths, physics, chemistry, et al. I never had trouble learning these things, they come to me naturally.

I'm studying computer science, which is and was my passion from the very childhood. I'm a computer programmer, and I am considered good at it, but I believe it is a result of my considerably longer time spent with these things than others, and not my absolute capabilities being better.

Originally Posted by Betty Patnude

What has frustrated you the most musically in the last 5 years? Has it been important to you to have music vocabulary or music theory concepts to help with your understanding?


Definitely poor sight reading. I need to spend considerate amount of time to read a new piece, much more than I actually need to master it technically. Which comes straight from the lack of understanding of music theory and structure. While others can easily identify certain scales, chords, modulations and therefore read faster and anticipate easier, I basically need to read every single note.

It was one of the ignitors for my desire to learn music theory and work through my scales diligently.

For my whole journey I was learning music vocabulary and pieces of theory by reading a lot - for tempo and expression markings, by looking in the dictionary, and so on. I always worked through such things while working on actual pieces. When I first encountered a triplet in the sheet music I had no idea what it is or how to execute it. I had to look it up. I learned a lot that way, even though I never studied these concepts alone.

Finding a teacher brought a whole new dimension to my playing. While still not working on theory alone, she always pointed out interesting things about music. She would say "see? this is a d flat major chord arpeggio - don't read the notes one at a time, try to understand and memorize the whole pattern", or "see the key signature change? how do you thing the mood changes here?". She really got me interested in it. I, for the very first time, have seen that there is really much going on in music, and everything has its purpose.

By her recommendation I bought a book on music theory, and a book of scales and arpeggios (Cooke's Mastering Scales and Arpeggios) and begun my work. I asked her to incorporate more theory into our lessons, and she prompty agreed. We are a perfect match, and I am very happy she was able to work with me without theory, as much as I am happy she can teach me theory now when I started to want it.

By the way, if I may use this thread to ask this question - could you please recommend me some literature about musical analysis? I would love to learn more about structure. To understand these all ABA forms, sonata form, how there is an initial theme exposition, modulation into different key, then reprise. I have a desire to read about all these things a lot and understand a lot more. The problem is, most books are for future music majors who have much more knowledge than I do. I need something on the basic side, to progress further towards more advanced approach.

Originally Posted by Betty Patnude

In teacher's lingo, the beginner is someone who started piano study from scratch, but who now can has learned to play hands together in simple literature, counts well, readys music and plays in Keys of C and possible G and F, for an octave in teach direction from Middle C. This level encompasses preparatory, early elementary and elementary levels fo study.


If we would include my severe rhythmical problems, I am still a beginner according to this very description! bah smile

It is really difficult to categorize people who work different ways. We always had discussions about what exactly is beginner and what is considered intermediate on Adult Beginners Forum. Because we all play different stuff, and all learn different things - I love classical, but others love new age or learn to improvise and play jazz - there is no single way to measure us all.

But I understand your point Betty, thanks for clarification!

Originally Posted by Betty Patnude

I can be grateful that you were not a quitter and that you were not completely defeated by frustration.


Oh, not at all! The satisfaction of being able to play what I love was and is much bigger than any frustration that may occur along the way.

I'm not a quitter, but just the opposite. I thought my teacher would laugh at me, but she treated me seriously when I claimed I am going to participate in 2nd International Chopin Piano Competition for Amateur Pianists in 2012. We had one this year and it was so much fun to attend from the audience. I had a talk with many participating pianists, some of them were at very high level, some of them were true beginners (the word amateur is not very well defined and the level varied greatly). Then I decided I want to have fun too. I perhaps have no chances of going through the first round, but it is a great motivation.

One thing my teacher said, and I cannot agree more, is that we will need a great amount of systematic work and no slacking whatsoever.

It may be ridiculous, but it will be fun. And that's what matters to me.

Originally Posted by Betty Patnude

Perhaps the question is about how you stayed positive and got to where you are?


I don't have much patience, and I'm a lazy guy. It's horrible when it comes to playing the instrument, which is extremely demanding of regular practice. Perhaps what allowed me to get me where I am were deadlines. I need deadlines. For me, e-citals on Adult Beginners Forum were such deadlines. I knew I had to prepare a solid piece every three months, and additional pieces for additional events. While many of them are work in progress till today, I had to bring them to playable condition for a certain date. That kept me on track.

The plans for competitions, even if I won't participate eventually, is such deadline for me too. It's a big goal, but having a certain path and light in the tunnel which shows me where I want to go helps a lot.


p.s. Thank you all for not bashing me and giving thumbs up! smile I appreciate it a lot.

My very best wishes,
Mateusz


Mateusz Papiernik
My youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maticomp
"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight
Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)
[Linked Image]
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Betty Patnude] #1293103
10/24/09 06:51 PM
10/24/09 06:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Canonie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
Originally Posted by Betty Patnude

I see passion, purpose and commitment from what you have said about your journey.
I just find it very difficult to understand how to get to an end result that is magnificent piano literature without have completely prepared the way to do so. ...

...In teacher's lingo, the beginner is someone who started piano study from scratch, but who now can has learned to play hands together in simple literature, counts well, readys music and plays in Keys of C and possible G and F, for an octave in teach direction from Middle C....

In piano teaching, the onus is on comprehension of reading and executing with accuracy on the piano. Each step of the way requires progress to that point before moving on to more difficult music. ...Perhaps the question is about how you stayed positive and got to where you are?


Mati, Betty and Currawong raise points that are at the heart of what I find so fascinating about teaching music. Mati's story is not a strange one to me and I really like reading stories like this. I didn't have a straight path with a skilled teacher myself, far from it.

In turning a child (or adult)into a musician, I think that the most important attibutes are desire and determination to have this music stuff in their brains and under their fingers. But you can't teach desire and determination, right? Mati clearly has Desire and Determination and would not we all put money on Mati to be still playing music in 10 years? .. or in 20 years? Would Mati?

So we teach musicianship and pianism efficiently from the ground up so that the student is not frustrated by misunderstandings. And one day they notice that they are playing some rather beautiful music, it feels good under the fingers, and they now have access to more of the same through the skills they learnt from their teacher.

What is puzzling is that a lot of these skilled players suddenly stop, and may never play again or play any instrument at all. But I am very excited for those who find a way back later. The Desire and Determination on the ABForum is palpable, I am learning a lot from these people. And hey, I'm a returning adult-beginner-no-longer-beginner myself.

Betty's "In piano teaching, the onus is on comprehension of reading and executing with accuracy on the piano. Each step of the way requires progress to that point before moving on to more difficult music." raises the question:
Do we have to teach in a linear way?
What would happen it we didn't?

Most of the time I teach in a spiral pattern. For some students the linear approach works really well too. I got this from learning dance. My teacher was Eastern - it was different, unexpected, challenging. She used to say "Oh you Europeans, you need to have answers to everything." A student would ask "how many 'steps' were there before the turn?" and she wouldn't answer with a number, she would sing the music and move as if she was the music. Western, Eastern.. doesn't really matter but the point was that it was opening my mind to ways of thinking that are non-logical, non-linear.

Gosh I'm going on a bit! So I'll give the last word to William S Newman of "Pianist's Problems" (never recommend this book verbally. Write it down instead, especially to males). I'm not quoting exactly but he suggests that the number one goal of the first 6 months with a student should be to get them to fall in love with piano and music. That's it? Food for thought definitely, and maybe this relates to Mati's story, maybe we can deliberately cultivate some extra desire and determination.

edited typo

Last edited by Canonie; 10/24/09 10:03 PM.

[Linked Image]
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Canonie] #1293108
10/24/09 07:02 PM
10/24/09 07:02 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member
currawong  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
Originally Posted by Canonie
So I'll give the last word to William S Newman of "Pianist's Problems" (never recommend this book verbally. Write it down instead, especially to males).
Great post, Canonie.
Just as a matter of interest smile did you know that in US most seem to say "pee-ANN-ist", not PEE-a-nist like we do here. So maybe you could recommend it verbally over there grin


Du holde Kunst...
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: currawong] #1293111
10/24/09 07:09 PM
10/24/09 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Kansas
apple* Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
apple*  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Kansas
the adult beginnners program has recordings of really PRETTY music.. it sounds simple.. (not Lizst)

you might ask there.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Mati] #1293121
10/24/09 07:37 PM
10/24/09 07:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Canonie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
Great post Mati! I think I'll have to brew another cup of tea this morning. And thanks Currawong for reading my too long rant with no IMHO qualification at end. I am beginning to think that we have a lot in commmon (but bet you're way better at keyboard skills and repertoire knowledge). Of course, they say pee ANN ist! now I know how the title got past the editor wink

Mati I think you are an excellent case study for Adult Beginner. Very interested in what you say about being lazy and motivators. I have to insert good motivators into my study.

"I thought my teacher would laugh at me, but she treated me seriously when I claimed I am going to participate in 2nd International Chopin Piano Competition for Amateur Pianists in 2012."

Of course she should treat this seriously! But maybe some wouldn't. A goal like that will really lift someone's playing to a new level, and we shouldn't exclude adult learners from these opportunities. It's such a motivator when the teacher is genuinely interested in the student and their own particular journey, however unconventional, or slow, or too fast, or problematic.

One other thing I find interesting; I reckon Mati's tendency to call himself "beginner" reflects Mati's attitude of "still so much to learn, so much to improve". An artist of any kind who often sees themselves in Beginner-Shoes may reach higher levels through being less attached to their recognised accomplishments. It also breeds respect for the achievements of others who are at the highest level, which is a learning and motivating tool in itself.

Damn, the currawong stole the cat's breakfast AGAIN. I was distracted!


[Linked Image]
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Canonie] #1293122
10/24/09 07:43 PM
10/24/09 07:43 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member
currawong  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,218
Down Under
Originally Posted by Canonie
Damn, the currawong stole the cat's breakfast AGAIN. I was distracted!
Those pesky currawongs! grin


Du holde Kunst...
Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Mati] #1293154
10/24/09 09:14 PM
10/24/09 09:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
B
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Betty Patnude  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
Mati,

I have enjoyed having this conversation with you!

Betty

Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Monica K.] #1293159
10/24/09 09:22 PM
10/24/09 09:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
B
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Betty Patnude  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
Originally Posted by Monica K.
Originally Posted by Betty Patnude
Each step of the way requires progress to that point before moving on to more difficult music. Obviously you worked alone outside of this process. I can be grateful that you were not a quitter and that you were not completely defeated by frustration. Perhaps the question is about how you stayed positive and got to where you are?


I'm guessing Mati was able to stay positive because he wasn't listening to somebody like you telling him what was "required" for progress in piano and that he couldn't get where he wanted to be in piano following the path he chose.


Golly, Monica, I just can't live without your unkind comments. Keep those cards and letters coming in. Someone said to me that they think you are obsessed with making disparaging comments about me. I'm thinking it's a valid comment at this point as that is your track record - nice to everyone - but heck on wheels toward me. Thanks for putting it all down in writing where your comments can clearly be seen and recorded.

Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Lollipop] #1293160
10/24/09 09:27 PM
10/24/09 09:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
B
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Betty Patnude  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,896
Puyallup, Washington
Originally Posted by Lollipop
Just guessing here, but I read Betty's post as in response to Mati's claim that he was a beginner. She was just trying to say that most of us teachers do not define beginner as someone who plays what he is playing.

I don't think she intended it as a floorplan for every student. But it does help to have a general idea of what consititutes a beginner level, what is intermediate, etc.


Thank you Lollipop for understanding my intent. At no time was I trying to intimidate nor show my superior knowledge. My conversation with Mati seemed to work quite respectfully and I'm glad about that.

However, others really get off track from what they think I'm saying and I do receive some indignant replies from what I've said in a sincere manner. I learned that by posting here, when I least expect it, I should really be expecting it.

I'm glad you could see some thread of intelligence in my response and took the time to say so. Again, thanks!

Betty

Re: Need some help with a new 15 yr old student [Re: Betty Patnude] #1293169
10/24/09 09:56 PM
10/24/09 09:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Canonie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,941
Australia
Betty
I think your post with all the questions to Mati brought out so many interesting and subtle issues. It has given me lots to think about today, as my posting shows smile I admire your ability to frame the questions instead of dismissing; a very experienced teacher could easily dismiss Mati's journey as a freak of nature.

The last day has been the best on PW for me so far. Thank you!


[Linked Image]
Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
ad
Jazz Piano Online
Jazz Piano Lessons Online

New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano Music on i_heart_radio
by Handyman. 01/16/19 04:54 PM
How do you upload mp3 files?
by Vilhelm Moqvist. 01/16/19 04:17 PM
DGX-660 And Recording Vocal Track
by ndmuscutt. 01/16/19 03:56 PM
Yamaha CFX and Liszt Sonata in B minor
by Rich Galassini. 01/16/19 02:18 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics189,610
Posts2,782,520
Members92,127
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2