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Re IQ, it is really all relative. I know somebody with an IQ of 160 who gave his Yahoo password to those scammers who write and say your account will be closed, please list all your details below etc. This person incidentally is very bad and tried to destroy me. He needed 9 years for a Bachelor's degree by the way...
I now made music the centre of my life , not IQ .

Elene, do you not find that, as you practice music over and over, that memory is formed all by itself? I have always found that, with enough exposure to a subject, learning takes place whether I want it to or not. I've learned to be a little careful about what I expose my mind to; there are a lot of worthless and horrible things I wouldn't care to take in. Memory and learning are mysterious; something the mind, by its own inherent power, does.

I've been scoffed at on these forums as a lunatic by quoting this sutra by Pantajali... but I think he was onto something. "The mind, like a colorless jewel, takes on the qualities of whatever it is placed upon." It's not just about memory, if I understand it. The mind, by its own power and automatically, becomes like whatever (good or bad--- it will as readily do either) we focus our attention on. We don't have the power to directly command a lot of things in our feelings or awareness, but we do have the power to direct our attention to something we want to be like--- or to remove it from something we don't.

Maybe it's not helpful after all. Still, it is hopeful to think that our minds can take on the qualities of such a great one as Chopin, just by giving his works our attention.

It's just possible you have learned more than you realize.

Elene: Don't be so hard on yourself or your poor brain. I also have trouble memorizing certain pieces that have broken chords or arpeggios in the LH. So matter how simple they are, I just can't master them.

For instance:
In the first measure..it's
C#,G#, E, C#
second half of measure:
C#A, D#, C#
Next measure:
C#,G#,E,C#
same for second half
The third measure is
C#,G#,E#,C#
Same for second half
Next measure:
F#, A, F#, C#
same
Next measure:
B#, G#, F#, D#

It gets worse as it goes on. I've discovered that I have no problem when the chords in the LH are solid. It's when they are separated that I get lost. I believe this might be because I tend to see the "big picture" in everyday issues. I remember we had a study group for the 55.1, which is almost all chords in the LH, and I played it yesterday, almost all the way through, from memory. I hadn't played it for many months.

I am going to be like you and take each measure at a time and try to devise some memory clue to help me with the LH.

I must have been absent the day that Steven wrote about those books. I would love to read them. Can you give me some more info on them?

I am reminded of just what intelligence is whenever I watch "Jeopardy." Naturally, most of the contestants have had some college or are self-taught. But I believe, more than intelligence is at work; I believe it is memory and the ability to call up certain facts quickly. This might be intelligence, but maybe not.

I think we all can agree that many intelligent people lack common sense. Their heads are way up there in the clouds, and many are not "street-smart."

Jeff: I am sorry that you have been scoffed at. I hope it hasn't been on this particular thread. We just don't do that!! And I do believe that when our brains have been introduced to and dwell upon certain aspects, they can and often do, pick up some very negative qualities, especially when the mind is still forming. This is quite evident in how violent so many of our young people have become. And I blame this on the media...TV, movies and those frightful video games that they play. It comes as no surprise that they lose their sensitivity and their respect for human life. It's almost like the "me-generation" but more scary. And, of course, we have always had "gangs." And they often broke the law, but hardly ever was killing someone a prerequisite for joining.

I am losing my space again,
Kathleen

It seems, from what i understand that a lot of inaccuracies or nonsense has been written about Chopin. Is there any particular book written about Chopin's life which stands out from the rest? I have an interest in learning more about his life.

While searching i came across an old article from the Independent. It was an interesting short read but i have no idea at this time whether or not the article is accurate ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/chopin-genius-or-monster-817909.html

No, it's not accurate at all, particularly about Chopin's character. It was written by a reporter wanting an angle quoting an extreme "scholar" wanting to make a name for himself by deconstruction. Get a copy of Chopin's letters and let the man speak for himself.

Thanks for the reply. That is pretty much what i expected to hear. The book looks interesting, I'll pick up a copy from Amazon.

Steve, I couldn't even bear to read beyond the first paragraph of that ignorant article, but I will pick out one sentence just to illustrate how deluded the author is:

a dandy who hated contact with the rest of the human race

Well, as a youth Chopin mixed with the peasants and countryfolk of his homeland which is where he garnered the rich store of folk music which later influenced his Mazurkas and, indeed, makes an appearance in nearly all his work.

Later, he had a kind and unsnobbish relationship with servants such as a maid at Nohant for whom he gave birthday and wedding gifts, and his own Irish manservant whom he considered to be more of a gentleman than many of the aristocracy.

He stopped in the street to speak to an old blind man in Edinburgh who was playing one of his works - just imagine the man's surprise and delight!

Chopin was constantly fascinated by the human race, making many warm or caustic remarks throughout his life which showed how observant he was.

He was very gregarious indeed, and when his health permitted socialised at parties on a daily basis or entertained in his own apartment.

He was fond of children, was selflessly kind to a young gifted pupil and went around on all fours on the floor to entertain his friend's baby girl.

When a childhood friend, also living in Paris, was seriously ill and dying, he personally nursed him and cared for him nearly making himself ill in the process.

Above all, throughout his life Chopin had a number of close friends who adored him and fondly remembered him for the rest of their lives when they outlived him. Many personal accounts exist of how well loved he was. Does that sound like a man who hated contact with the rest of the human race?

Yes, that sentence is pure libelling.... Like probably most of the rest of the article, but I won't read it....

SteveMac, perhaps you should read Jim Samson's and Jeremy Siepmann's biographies of Chopin. Also, while not a biography, Jeff Kallberg's Chopin at the Boundaries provides some interesting insights that you won't find elsewhere.

(And you could slog through our enormous thread here-- a lot of it is honestly quite fact-filled!)


Elene

Hi steveMac and welcome:

I found it very difficult to read that article because of not only the factual errors but the misconceptions stated. It was a good thing the clip was relatively short because my boil started boiling after the first sentence.

There was, however, one sentence that I did like very much:

. Sand may have been heroically supportive in the early years of their relationship, but her eventual dismissal of him, after robbing him of his dignity, was breathtakingly callous. And his end had terrible pathos: dying destitute at the smartest address in town, publicly shunned by a lover to whom his devotion had never wavered.


I would also recomend Chopin, pianist and teacher, as seen by his pupils by Eigeldinger. This book contains first-hand, primary sources of those who knew him. You will find he was a very different person than the one presented in this article. Was he perfect? No. But one only has to listen to his legacy to realize that here was a man who felt so deeply that he could only express himself through the beauty and wonder of his music. And what music it is! There was no one like him before and no one like him since.

I really had to laugh at that one sentence that stated his works are largely unheard of today. WOW!! So wrong that it turns the whole article into trash.

My best,
Kathleen

Thanks everyone for the great recommendations.

I'm very glad to read just how inaccurate that article is. I'm looking forward to taking up some of these recommendations and learning more about Chopin.

Yes, thanks for the great recommendations...

CA

Back to the memory thing: Jeff Clef, I'm afraid that I usually don't naturally memorize pieces even after playing them a squintillion times. It surprises me. I do find that I'm not reading every note anymore in those cases, but I'm still totally dependent on having the sheet music for clues. Typically I wouldn't even be able to start such a piece without looking at it. I think what this means is that I've never really encoded the notes in my brain even though I've played them so many times. I'm a relatively good reader, and the reading seems to take place with circuits that don't involve memorizing at all.

Right now I'm working with two short pieces that I have managed to memorize. One is the 7/2 mazurka, which I first learned about (eek!) 33 years ago, and which is both familiar and pretty simple. When I tried it recently, I found that a lot of it was already automatic, so I was able to go ahead and memorize it the rest of the way. So that, for once, worked more or less the way Jeff said it should.

At the same time, I picked out an extremely simple, even simplistic, little piece by Mussorgsky, specifically because there is so little information in it to remember. I started memorizing it right from the beginning, as soon as I started playing it. Even though it's almost childish in its simplicity, it's still taken me many, many repetitions over a couple of weeks to get it to come out fairly well from memory, and I'm still having to stop and think for a moment at times. This is what I meant about having to treat my brain like a developmentally disabled small child. But patience does seem to be working, and perhaps with practice I will be able to memorize more complex material more easily. I am definitely far more conscious of the notes, and can see them in my mind, having learned them this way.

I was never wonderful at memorizing guitar or lute music, either, but generally it contains less information than keyboard music, because it isn't possible to play as many notes at once. Pieces that consist largely of chords or arpeggios can be memorized as a series of left-hand configurations, which are easy to form a mental picture of, and one doesn't usually have to be very conscious of the right hand. So there are fewer chunks of information to have to keep in mind, sometimes very few, even for a piece that has a lot of notes in it. A contrapuntal type of piece can be far more difficult to memorize.

Kathleen, when you are trying to learn those broken chords, I assume you're thinking of them as whole chunks, as if they were block chords? Can you see them as if they were all together in a chord? Are you analyzing them as chords? That way you're still concentrating on the "big picture," as you said is natural for you.

Elene

Hi Elene: You and I must have been standing in the same line when they were giving out brains (for music, that is). I also need that piece of paper in front of me though I am not really “looking” at it. This is the case even if I have played the piece a trillion times (no exaggeration here, I’m surprised my piano doesn’t stand up on it rear leg and shout: “Enough Already!). I can’t even begin it without the music. I suspect my muscle memory is taking over as I play (blindly), but I hate to rely on it. My sister took piano lessons as an adult for 8 years, and she can’t play at all, even with the music in front of her. I blame this on her rather eccentric teacher.

One thing I have noticed that is some cause for celebration is that my sight reading has improved 100%, so I am guessing that I am looking at those notes. My sister says that we both have VDDM - Visual Deficit Disorder for Music, and I tend to agree. My theory is sadly lacking, so I can’t see those chords as a whole in the left hand. I am going to try writing them down on manuscript paper. I’ve learned that when I write out my shopping list or someone’s phone number, I remember it (even though I have left that list at home, which is normally the case).

My best,
Kathleen

For me, I think it's a matter of confidence. If I know a piece well, I like the music in front of me as a kind of safety blanket. I sometimes forget to look, and then suddenly realise I am playing from memory and panic!

Exactly -I know it just well enough to get into trouble.

Writing out music definitely helps you learn it. It makes you process what you're seeing more consciously.

I often write in chord names, also, as an aid to learning, even when the chords are obvious to me. The only trouble is that with Chopin there are often chords that are difficult or impossible to analyze, the kind he came up with apparently through noodling around at the keyboard rather than a theoretical construction. It always amazes me how such a chord will sound completely natural in the flow of the piece, yet it's harmonically out of left field. At least to my level of ability to do harmonic analysis. Occasionally I ask my husband what he might make of those, and he can't make any more sense out of them than I can.

Elene

I want to enlarge my library with books that are considered excellent. I went on Amazon and Ebay looking for the Siepmann's book on Chopin and also the Samson book.

However, Siepmann lists a few books on him. Could you recommend a specific title, same for the Samson book?

Many thanks,
Kathleen

I just wanted to post something that i just discovered today in my area, El Paso. There is an annual Chopin Music Festival, http://elpaso-chopin.com/ I'm hoping to make tomorrow night's performance and also hopefully the final performance on the 31st. Though being Halloween and having three youg kids that might be a problem.

Really excited to find out this is going on in my area.

Wow, steveMac, I didn't know there was an annual Chopin festival in El Paso. Live performance is infinitely more rewarding than a recording. Hope you enjoy it very much!