Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Advice for Beethoven's Piano Sonata no 27 op 90

Op. 90 is my first Beethoven sonata... I started out on the first movement about a year ago, though primarily this was because I had no choice (I was given a Beethoven sonata book for Christmas. Unfortunately, I was given the volume 4, which contained sonatas no. 26 to 32.) I browsed through the sonatas and found no. 27 to be the easiest among the sonatas in the book!

I continued to struggle with the first movement of the sonata... and when I though of giving up (because I admit I was technically very unprepared to tackle the sonata in the first place), I was already addicted to it!

It was not until I've heard Schiff's lectures about this sonata that I had a real progress in playing this sonata. Indeed, understanding more about a composition helps...

Hehe... After I finish and polish this sonata, I plan to learn Sonata no. 22 op 54. Hehe. I have this thing about two-movement sonatas... I'm not really a good memorizer.

Anyways, I do agree that I need a better digital piano. I was thinking of selling my Korg C-26 for a Yamaha Clavinova. I've heard those come with damper and una corda pedals. Do you recommend this model?

Thank you and have a good day!

Well indeed Barenboim isn't my favorite beethoven player (especially after hearing the rubato in his appassionata, which is imo unacceptable). I prefer Friedrich Gulda, and I just bought the cd's from Andras Schiff, which I will be listening to tommorow.

If I were you, I would definitely get the other volumes. You're 18 years old, you should be able to get them. I'm saying this because there is a big chance that op90 will drive you mad before you are able to play it. Clavinova's are there in all different kinds, you will find lots of information about them in the digital piano section on this forum. I didn't have a budget limit, and ended up with the Kawai CA111, it was one of the only digital piano's that made me feel like I was playing a real one.

I posted this list earlier, and part of it is actually from someone else on this forum, but it might be informative for you to see. Its a difficulty list of the beethoven Sonata's (in my opinion of course!)

1 - Op 49#2 (leichte sonate 2)
2 - Op 49#1 (leichte sonate 1)
3 - Op 79 (coocoo)
4 - Op 14#1 (string quartet)
5 - Op 2#1 (little appassionata)
6 - Op 10#1
7 - Op 14#2
8 - Op 10#2
9 - Op 26 (marcia funebre)
10 - Op 13 (pathetique)
11 - Op 54
12 - Op 27#2 (mondschein)
13 - Op 28 (pastorale)
14 - Op 31#3 (the hunt)
15 - Op 78 (for theresa)
16 - Op 31#2 (tempest)
17 - Op. 22
18 - Op 2#3
19 - Op 2#2
20 - Op 90
21 - Op 31#1
22 - Op 10#3
23 - Op 27#1
24 - Op 7 (grande sonate)
25 - Op 110
26 - Op 57 (appassionata)
27 - Op 109
28 - Op 81a (les adieux)
29 - Op 53 (waldstein)
30 - Op 111
31 - Op 101
32 - Op 106 (hammerklavier)

To say that "Barenboim is nothing" gives you very little credibility here. He is a fine musician in many respects.

Regards,

Sorry, big excuse what I am talking about Barenboim.
Please forgive me but one thing. I play the Pathetique better than him. Listen at Piano Player Network. Pathetique Part 1. It is really great or?
Chief

Would you bother to provide a link to your recording? Your claim definitely made me very curious and for some reason I highly doubt your words.

I'm intrigued myself Barenboim is one of the best pianists alive, and the reason I don't like him for beethoven is because of the choices he made, its has nothing to do with his outstanding abilities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeL8...next=1&playnext_from=PL&index=46

No, sorry Barenboim is an old man same like me. He plays Beethovens Sonatas perfect, but there is no live in it.
I play Beethoven,not such good but there is a feeling there is live. My be Ludwig said, That is it.
Sorry that I have to say this one.
Chief

I think Op. 90 should be somewhere near the very low teens on the ranking list of the Sonatas.

Ditto.

Interesting that a Beethoven expert would, after mistaking the sonata number for the opus number, assume that Opus 27 must mean the C# minor sonata.

There is no such thing as an easy Beethoven sonata.

I am over 40 and play all Beethoven's piano sonatas. The greatest challenge comes with the "una chorda" octaves in final movement of the Waldstein along with the trill sections of his number 32 variations.

The E minor 27 is not without challenges (as with ALL Beethoven's sonatas, incl the sonatinas), particularly I find in the more difficult final movement. Regards the bars you inquire about, first you need to master the technique for performance WITHOUT sustaining pedal. Then I would advice that you pedal only for enhancement SPARINGLY. The fact you are concerned about pedaling suggests you are using it as a "crutch". If so, the work is beyond your current technique and you are advised to revisit it when you are able.

..... you play op106? ..... And his number 32 variations, you mean the Diabelli variations I assume? And you really find the Op90 second movement harder than the first one?

I'm sorry if I seem really sarcastic, its just that when people claim they can play the op106 sonata, I become very suspicious. A youtube video will do !

I play all his sonata's including the "hammerclavier" Opus 106. Perhaps I don't approach the great fugue as fast as Glenn Gould and I have a few problems after the "sempre dolce". For interpretation I am up with Sokolov, for instance. You make a donation & I make you a video vvanrij.

But back to the topic. I just performed the 1st movt of opus 90 now. The hard bars are 55-64 & 198-207. Once you have mastered those, you are well on the way with this work. You should aim for a 150 crochets +/- tempo in my opinion. Beware of bars 133-143. It is easy to lose Beethoven's "musical concept" there. If the tempo drops much under 150 crochets bars 113-133 seem lifeless. The runs at bars 29-31, 33-34 etc are extremely challenging. You need to achieve a rhythmically balanced whilst "unwavering" forte. "2nd best" won't do. Here only a 1st rate performance will have impact.

There is my advice. Heed it as you will & good luck with perseverance.

Hi, how much will that donation be (you'll have to dedicate the performance to me of course, Victor gewidmet). I find the bars 113 till 131 extremely difficult, because the logic in the right hands sequence is extremely hard (seems almost non existent) and you have to play it softly so that the LH shine's trough with the melody. Cheers

Keep an eye on the sf's in the left hand score vvanrij. The right hand is an exercise of tonal development. It is important to ensure there are no "breaks" in continuity - even minor. Do not treat it as a straightforward crescendo development - rather a pulsating harmonic development. I imply an "accelerando" in my development of this section. Hence the importance of 133-143 where I counter with a gradual "ritenuto". The sections 55-64 etc are by far the most technically difficult parts of this movement. They don't sound particularly glamorous, but the left hand needs to be played at a uniform piano with the right hand octaves accentuating the harmonic development. If you can play that perfectly.....I WANT TO HEAR IT!!!!! Forget Op 106!

On that note, why do you have such a lust for the big works? Would you not want to hear the most immaculate performance of Beethoven's 1st F minor sonata in place of a mediocre performance of the big B flat?

Well mine is a different story. I used to play alot of so so piano with popular pieces and bad techniques, never really practicing alot (I did this from age 12 till 20 or something like that). But then I discovered the music of Beethoven, which just really hits me, and its music I really understand.

So then I bought some sheet music, and off I went learning the Pathetique, Opus 90, Pastorale etc. only to find out that I really wasn't capable of playing these advanced pieces. So I ended up now playing the pathetique about 70% of how I want it to sound in the end, of opus 90 I can play the 2nd movement pretty well (but still not errorless), and the second movement of the pastorale.

And I started going back now (my goal in the end is to be able to play all 32 sonatas, I don't care if I will never get it to full speed with the most difficult pieces, I still want to play them. Thats why I'm very jealous of you). So I went off learning Op49's, Op14/1, Op79 (I still think this is a rather hard piece, harder than the op14's) and am now learning Op2/1. I love all of his Sonatas very very much, so I want to take my time to really get to know them and play them well, but I am still unpatient, so I tend to move on to a new piece, before perfecting the old ones (I still play them daily, but almost never errorless).

Its not that I have a lust for the big works, I just thought that the hammerklavier was as good as impossible to play for the normal piano players. I mean I do have some talent, but I'm afraid I lost out alot in the years (12-20) by not moving on, and I just hope I can catch up or something.

Ok, sorry Op. 90 is the 27 Sonata, and op, 27 Nr. 1&2 esp: Nr. 2 is the famous " Mondschein " Sonata. Is that ok now.
I will provide a link to my recordings, first Pathetique.
Chief

Thank you for being humble vvanrij. I suspected as much, by the way!

I would be inclined to approach Beethoven's Grand Sonata Op 26 "Andante con Variazioni" as it is offers something for the beginner and the virtuoso. However you must try to MASTER Op2 no 1. The Adagio is deceptively challenging and the Minuet is a masterpiece that is extremely easy to perform badly.

By way of my background, I was an extremely passionate pianist who managed to perform a castration of Tchaikovsky's B flat minor piano concerto at age 16. At age 35 I was an average untrained pianist who "believed" he could play the Appassionatata. I then took lessons with Bransby Byrne and we started performance training with that work. I made a performance of the final movement at 60 crochets (100 for the presto finale). Now I play the same movement at 140 crochets and the presto at 220. It took 5 years of heck (1 3/4 hours a day technical exercises, scales and arpeggios....before I start to work on pieces!!!!!). Then everything "clicked". And now there is nothing I can't play. Correction - there is plenty I can't pl ay, but nothing is beyond my mastery.

You need 4 elements to become a great pianist - talent, passion and dedication. If any of those three are lacking you will probably not make it. The fourth is LUCK. You need a good teacher. Without direction, there is no path.

Sorry, but you do not understand what I mean. First of all my Name is "Chief" Boss at an Merchant Ship, same like "Kapitän" but Chief is the Boss of the Engine. Amazing he play that piano too.
Chief