Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Piano Guild and the case for memorization . . . .

... which is why the burden on students rises as their ability rises (I presume). As a student matures, sonatina movements give way to full sonata movements. A twelve piece repertoire that includes two full sonatas and six other works is a chunk to work on. A six piece or eight piece repertoire, half of which is a sonatina is much less daunting.

Thank you, both. I am not a teacher.

I read your description of a 15-piece requirement and wondered if the child I am writing of had a 10 or 16 piece memorized repertoire of baroque/classic/romantic.

Is this the guild you are referring to? http://pianoguild.com It says it has over 800 auditions. Since I have never seen it advertised, is it private? Do I understand correctly that the teacher has to belong in order for a student to be adjudicated on individual achievements?

But there is no requirement that a student perform a whole sonata. The requirement is that they perform at least one piece from each musical era, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Contemporary.

That's 4 pieces. The remaining six can be anything, as long as the difficultly level matches the grade requirement. This is different from some programs which have a repertory pool which students must draw from.

Also, the student may substitute technical phases for repertoire. This isn't always as easy as it sounds, however. A HS student subbing scales for repertoire darn sure better know all 24 major and minors, plus minor modes, if they plan to sub.

Fellow Guild teachers, I need your help!

A parent of a 10-y.o. student who has done a National program for the past 3 years has told me that she and the child don't see the value in Guild and want to opt out this year. Though I ask students to review an old repertoire piece or more each week (we list them on the assignment sheets, and vary the pieces week to week), I think they are still thinking that they have to learn "all these pieces" just before the auditions.

It really should be easy for this student, who excels at piano and learns pieces very quickly, and always earns Superior Plus ratings. The parent said they aren't "excited" about Guild, and that she feels that playing 3 or 4 pieces for the auditions should be enough, and would prefer a comment sheet as opposed to the report card, etc. etc. I am disappointed. They said they would do Guild if I insisted, but this conversation seems to be a big red flag to me, since it's only September!

Also, I am the new Guild chair in Lexington, so I think I'd better have all my "ducks in a row" and be able to be enthusiastic enough to motivate my students... Right?

Thank you for any advice you may have! I am feeling a bit wrung out already this year.

We had our first "For Pianists Only" group lesson this Saturday, and most of the students played four or more pieces from memory, pieces they had auditioned last May, in addition to a new piece in progress. They could have played more, but we had time constraints. However, I was particularly proud of one young lady who whipped of ten pieces without breaking a sweat.

So I guess my first question to this mom would be, "Why do you want your child to learn the piano?" "What are your expectations concerning his/her playing for friends, family, in public?" "Do you want them to be comfortable playing?"

Of course, these are somewhat loaded questions, but they are to the point that preparing to play in a public setting requires more preparation, piece by piece, than just learning the basics of each piece, then moving on. And having to memorize them requires even more. Learning will be more complete and thorough.

I guess my final question to the parents would be, "Don't you feel it will impact their self-esteem, knowing their friends are playing 10, 15 or more pieces from memory, and they are only doing 4?"

Could it be that the best reasons why she should continue are:

1) Now that she's had 3 years of experience and is 10 years old she knows how to prepare and present a required program and keep it memorized and polished. A huge advantage for when she wants to play "something" for "somebody".

2) Now that she's had 3 years of experience and is 10 years old, the music is becoming more difficult, longer and shows musicianship skills that she did not have in previous years.

3) Now that she's had 3 years of experience and is 10 years old, the competition between students is getting more keen, since many students may have dropped from piano study, but the remaining students are making considerable progress.

4) Now that she's had 3 years of experience and is 10 years old, she is more mature and knowledgable about what musicianship is all about, theory, techniques, composers and their characteristics, era, music history. The other students in her peer group (same teacher/level of playing)are earning merits while advancing, and she is certainly of earning merit.

5) Now that she's had 3 years of experience and is 10 years old, to drop out of it at this point because of not valuing the system, the requirements, nor having received merits.

Does this mean that she is losing her enthusiasm and productivity at a time when we know she needs to stay "in the game", but she doesn't "feel" like it.

You might ask what is the "real" problem she is experiencing?

Ask the daughter and mother to make "I" statements about it so that you can really understand their viewpoint. Part of our job as piano teachers sometimes includes the area of "overcoming objections". So first of all you have to know what the objections really are.

One thing that may be missing is putting the emphasis on the success of your other students who do the program. This young lady seems to have been participating without noticing the accomplishments of the other students who have presented some very good music in their programs. If she has not been involved in listening to them, she is missing an important part of participation. She could hear some wonderful music and respect her peer group if the focus was more on "all" students and less on "her".

The "fear of failure" holds a lot of students back.

Betty

I encourage my students to do a 10 piece national program for at least 5 years so they can get their picture in the guild publication. I don't know if that will help with your student. Show her the journal with all of the pictures. Let her read about some of the accomplishments of the other students. After 5 years I tell them they can do less if they want. I have never talked to anyone about doing more.

I am fairly new to guild, this will be my 8th year, and my families have noticed the difference at the spring recital. I don't quite have 100% participation yet but am working toward that goal. When I start a new student now it is with the expectation that they will do a guild program.

Until about high school age it is generally really easy to put together 10 pieces. In high school the problems are time and length of pieces but remember a student can repeat a piece from a previous year.

My students do 3 musicianship phases and then choose from the following:
Baroque
Classical
Romantic
Contemporary
Christmas
Pop
Duet
Religious
Folk Song
Patriotic

As far as memorizing, the first few years seem to be the most difficult. Even though the pieces are short and simple the process is new. I have had several parents say they didn't think they were going to get through the first couple of years but it gets easier. Students begin planning ahead and picking out their favorites throughout the year.

I have also had the comment that when they go visit a relative or friend and are asked to play something the students are ready, have something memorized and enjoy entertaining family and friends. I think the confidence that they have gained through the whole process really helps.

Good luck with your student and mom.

Speaking of accomplishments, one of my HS students informed me that he plans to continue doing National programs so he can make it into a better college. Apparently he's researched the subject and has learned that HS with National Piano Playing Certificates show the ability to work and master subject matter that top universities are looking for in their prospective students.

Mom might be interested in that!

John v.d.Brook--I would like to be able to tell my high school families about this. Tell me more about what your student found out. Is this a student that wants to study music or does he want to put it on his college application? I think that what he is saying is that this is a huge accomplishment that colleges will recognize.

Thanks.

Thanks for your replies, John, Betty and abcdefg!

This is also my 8th year in Guild. I always have all but one or two in auditions, and since 2003 have had at least 20 students a year. Last year 15 of my students prepared National programs, and 11 made the cut for certification renewal (I was actually very surprised by that, lol). I make a pretty big deal out of the 5-year award, and have had 2 students earn their composer pins. I expect at least 7 pieces plus 3 MPs, but most young students just do 9 plus sight-playing.

This particular student could be well on her way if she sticks it out. I think part of it is that she watched her older sibling go through Guild from 8th through 12th grade, playing very advanced literature. This older sibling is now studying for a piano/biology double major at a small college. (!!) So, I suspect there may be a fair amount of comparison there. Mom may also be just tired of her role as practice helper... she likes to spend a small portion of her child's practice time listening and supporting... but maybe it's become a lot of work. I don't know.

The mom has said they would continue with Guild "if I want them to," but I'm hoping that by asking more questions, I can really find out what the issue is, as John and Betty have suggested.

I don't want to start second guessing myself in terms of Guild as a studio requirement, and my summer and fall have been so hectic/stressful for me in general, that I think I had a moment of doubt.

John, sorry to steal your thread here! I'll start a new post if anything changes with my student.

Wishing you all a good night!

~Adrienne

Yes, I think he's say this is a huge accomplishment that colleges will recognize too.

The student in question ran for and won class president as a freshman; he's a real go getter, and decided he wanted to get into the best colleges possible, so he's been studying up on the entrance requirements/desirables.

I cannot tell you where he found this information, but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually telephoned admissions offices and asked!

He is not a music major, nor will be. Just wants as much portfolio as he can get to help him in college entry.

One of the reasons colleges like standardized test scores is they know that the scores Jimmy B from NYC and Tammy A from Podunk, Oklahoma can be compared. Grades from their high schools just can't. A student might be doing college level work for a tough teacher and get a C, while another student can barely read or do math at a jr high level and get a B or even an A. (and yes, the reason they *don't* like standardized tests is that now parents can outright buy their kids' high scores by paying for specialized tutoring and multiple attempts)

College admissions people also know that some high schools like their reputations for "preparing kids for X and Y Impressive Colleges" and will inflate grades, accomplishments and letters of recommendation to get little Johnny and Suzie in...after which they're on their own.

What colleges REALLY want, is some proof from an unbiased source that the student has the skills, drive and knowledge to buckle down and work at something worth doing over a long period of time. Ta da... Piano Guild

Thanks for the insight and reminder. It's been a long, long, long time since even my kids were preparing college apps!

There is no such thing as an unbiased source.