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Okay, I know this is all subjective, but I would appreciate any input/guidance anyone has...

I am buying my girlfriend a DP for Christmas. Her favorite acoustic is a Bösendorfer (much preferred over a Steinway). I am looking to spend in the neighborhood of US$3,000 and after reading review after review, post after post, I still have no idea if I should be looking at a Yamaha, Roland, or Kawai. I don't need tons of other voices, I don't need lots of extra techno features (though recording a track or two would be nice as well as some kind of USB connection). I really just want the DP that has the fullest, richest sound, the most realistic feel, etc. As I say her favorite acoustic is a Bösendorfer to give you a frame of reference.

I understand I am playing with fire, picking out a piano for her instead of letting her try them all out - but any suggestions on the best models to get (or at least the best 3 to look at) would be so helpful.

Since sound and touch is so subjective, if you can even just tell me what are considered to be the best models in that price range it would be a tremendous help (let's say the range is US $2,500 - US $3,500)

Thanks for all your input and sorry if my question is that of such a neophyte that it's annoying.

Follow up question....

Between the Roland RM-700 and HP-207...thoughts? Is there a major price difference? Major sound difference? Thanks again

You really are playing with fire and should let her chose the piano, its way too subjective.

No DP is going to match a bosey and i would ignore that as a reference and take the DP on its own merits.

207s are good value for money.

Within DPs and your budget, you can expect best from these models:

Yamaha CLP-280
Roland HP207 / HP203
and Kawai's new CA93

the later planned to be lunched on October 15, and it includes a true soundboard (like CA111 ), then you can expect a richer sound.

And... as you also realized it may be a bad idea for Christmas gift.

I believe three brands you should consider are Roland, Yamaha and Kawai. Roland gives you Steinway sound, Yamaha gives you Yamaha sound, Kawai gives you Kawai sound. If she really likes Bösendorfer that much (I love it), you’re in trouble.

You may want to consider this combination (powerful PC needed):
- Kawai MP8II (apx. $1,900)
- ASUS Xonar Essence STX (apx. $170)
- Native Instruments Akoustik Piano ($79 on sale at Musician’s Friend)

It’s all about $2,150 (no speakers, yet) and it will sound like this: NI Akoustik Piano.

After this, you’d probably want to choose stand, chair, etc. It can all fit well within $3,000.

If you like where this is going, I can help you further.

Thanks Nikola, but I don't think I want to go that route...

Reza/bobbo- Thanks for the links and the suggestions

Oh and LOL Nikola (Re: the Bösendorfer)

I think you just answered your own question!

I think letting her pick herself is the best option. It might not seem as romantic as surprising her on christmas morning with the wrapped gift, but at least you guarantee it's the piano she likes best.

Sound and touch is subjective indeed....I would go for the Yamaha's.......

Roland has a warmer and round sound.......Yamaha is much more bright.......question of taste.....

Take your girlfriend to the music store and find out her prefenrence.............Yes I know,.... there will be less surprise.......but after all you spend some dollars....

Best regards,
Johan B

OK. In case you change your mind, please let me know. What I’ve written up to now is incomplete and may be a bit misleading. For instance, I recommended NI Akoustik Piano only because it’s on sale at the moment. If it wasn’t, I’d probably recommend Synthogy Ivory.



No doubt. Nstaff may pretend he intends to start playing piano. He could say he wants to buy an instrument for himself and ask for advice.

nstaff, buying a piano as a gift also appears on the acoustic forum. In general it's a lovely idea but not a good one. Because the lady already plays, it'd be a particularly good idea to take her on auditioning dates.

With digitals, touch is more important than tone because touch can't be changed - those Touch Settings are a psychoacoustic illusion - but tone can be, by simply connecting the piano to a computer on which you've stored a software piano. That connection can be done neatly, BTW, so no need to worry about appearance.

Just as with acoustics, it'd be a good idea to plan on making multiple auditions. Choosing a piano is ultimately an emotional decision and we often react differently on different days.

For a pianist, buying a piano for someone else without audition is akin to setting them up on a blind date or an arranged marriage. I again advise against it.

Arg...yeah...this is what I was kind of worried about...

Okay, well let's say I am a total arse and an idiot and do it anyway...any thoughts as to the original question?

(please no one take offense to this - I am not misunderstanding or disregarding this advice, I'm just still interested to know your opinions on the DP's...). thanks.

If I remember correctly, the Korg Triton Extreme piano (no longer in production as far as I know) has a Bosendorfer sampled piano.

If anyone would spend $2,500 - $3,500 to give me a piano... Total arse? No way!

FogVilleLad is right about touch and sound, but you stated connecting to computer is not your route. Still, you mentioned Bösendorfer as her favorite. To have all (also don’t have what you don’t want) is impossible. Therefore, we have to establish priorities. We are talking about an expensive instrument your girlfriend is supposed to use for years.

If she doesn’t want Steinway, you don’t want Roland. I believe she doesn’t like Yamaha very much, either. If she likes Bösendorfer, I’d suggest Kawai CA51. Why? I like both. It’s a bad way to pick a digital piano, but it’s the best I can do with this sort of input. If you wish to wait and read reviews of CA63 and hopefully make some of us try it, you may be closer to finding her favorite.

I urge you to reconsider software piano, because it lessens the risk and offers sound upgrades. Only touch can be wrong that way and your girlfriend probably wouldn’t expect DP to feel exactly like her favorite Bösendorfer.

Now, I think you should tell us more. Do you know how she likes the sound of Yamaha grand pianos? Maybe she hates computers? Can you mention Kawai acoustic pianos in a conversation and deduce what she thinks about the sound of these pianos?

Nikola - thanks for the great advice. I will say I was fairly tempted to go Roland because I LOVE the way the LX-10 looks and I think she would too (and I think I found a very good deal on one at $4000 out the door)...

I can try to work into a conversation her thoughts on a Kawai (though she is too smart for her own good and will I'm sure get suspicious).

She doesn't hate computers, but the whole digital piano thing is a concern for me because she is very much a "only the real thing" kind of girl - so she may really not like the idea of a digital piano. I just know she wants a piano so much and neither of us can afford an acoustic (nor do we have the room).

The CA63 comes out sometime in the next month?

Thanks again for your input!

nstaff, OK, you're in tough here. If the whole idea of digitals is objectionable, you might want to start scouring eBay and other outlets for a Yamaha GranTouch. In Europe they were sold in both grand and vertical configurations. I don't know if the verticals were marketed in the United States.

The grand - in a very small baby grand cabinet - came with a modified action for a Yamaha grand. (The pedal part wouldn't function exactly the same, and small weights replaced hammer felts.) Then get a sampled Bosendorfer and install it onto a computer which would be placed under the piano. Desktops make for simpler installations than do laptops.

I currently play Galaxy II's Bosendorfer. (My DP is a digital grand from General Music; has a modified Detoa action for a vertical. The model is GRPT140, I think; got it on eBay.) Galaxy's other instruments are a Hamburg Steinway D and a Bluthner baby grand. All are highly tweakable, tho the only major tweak I've done to the Bosie is to limit its dynamic range. If you go this route, PM me and I'll send you my tweaks.

In the meantime, you might consider a suggestion that Monica K. makes on the acoustic forum: buy the lady a bracelet with a piano charm.

IMO the Roland sound is the closest to a Bosendorfer of them all.

PHA II Ivory Feel (LX10 touch part) is good, samples are amongst the best, and this piano truly looks appealing. For a person who likes how Steinway concert grand sounds and appreciates aesthetics, this is probably the best choice close to price range we were discussing here. The only problem is you’ve mentioned Bösendorfer. Actually, it’s not the only problem. The real problem is I understand that preference too well.

Korg Triton Extreme may sound a bit like Bösendorfer 290 Imperial Grand (I guess that’s what they’ve intended), but its touch can’t do the trick. Also, I have a feeling it doesn’t look good enough for what you intend it to be.

Kawai CA63 is supposed to come out in Japan on the 13th of November. I guess it will be available in US short after presentation in Japan... I hope KAWAI James reads this... And I hope they hit Europe soon enough, or I’ll get angry!

If you don’t want software pianos, I think we should put Bösendorfer aside from this point on and give you time to find out which of these three sounds your girlfriend prefers: Steinway, Yamaha and Kawai.

One more thing... I know I can be boring, but there’s a reason for FogVilleLad to suggest VSTi and you made it worse by typing ”only the real thing”... If she’s ”only the real thing” kind of girl, VSTi (software piano) is definitely your best choice in terms of sound. You may pick DP by touch and maybe looks (GranTouch is too expensive for the purpose), and add any kind of sound to it. If you are sure you do not like this route, I’ll try not to mention this again.

Another software option which has been released is 'Vienna Imperial' (Bosendorfer Imperial) from Vienna Symphonic Library. From what I gather, it is pretty far advanced of the others on the market (1,200 samples per note!).

It might help with getting that proper Bosendorfer sound, but as I have neither played a Bosie or used this software, I can only speculate. I know you said you aren't after software, so feel free to ignore this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsZezc4zRqU

FogVilleLand, I would be curious to see your settings for the Bosendorfer on Galaxy 2. I use that software to tone my midi files, but as of yet I've found the Steinway to be the best (to my ears). If you can offer advice on how to get the best from the Bosendorfer I would be glad to hear it. As of yet I've only used the presets (chamber, concert hall etc).