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Weren't many of Chopin's pieces published posthumously?

Steven, I'm not inflating the merits of anything. I enjoy that piece. I like it. It feels good to me to play it. There are a number of Chopin's works that I don't particularly like, and I've never said that I like everything of his, not by any means, nor do I feel obliged to do so. This is not worth fighting over. I was not taking anything as a "personal affront," and I don't see any reason for you to do so, either.

Of course the Lento and the Allegro de Concert are in different worlds in terms of their complexity, difficulty and sophistication. I was merely saying that I like the one piece and you like the other. The end.

The E minor nocturne, 72/1, written in Chopin's late teens, was published posthumously. I don't know what circumstances led to its not being published during the composer's lifetime, but I think (I think) that most of us would agree that it is very fine indeed.

Elene

The number is significant though relatively modest. If one counts everything from Opp. 66 through 74 (the numbers assigned in the decade after his death) and everything that surfaced since then, and treating all sets as individual pieces (the 17 songs of Op. 74, for example), I would hazard a guess that the percentage of posthumous pieces is perhaps 20-25% of the total.

In categories such as concertos, concert pieces, ballades, chamber music, etudes and scherzos, there are no posthumous works; the only genre in which they predominate is the waltzes (11 posthumous out of 19 total).

Steven

And what about Polonaises, Steven? If I see right, there are 7 published during his life and 9 posthumous ones (catalogued as WN 1 through 35 using new National Edition numbering system*, formely three of Op. 71 and the rest without opus numbers).

* National Edition of Chopin Works is assigning WN numbers to all posthumous works.

If anybody is interested in a Tribute to Chopin based on his Prelude in E minor by Stephen Heller op. 71 Elegie et Marche Funebre. Written after Chopin's death. Heller & Chopin were friends.
Heller's op. 71 -Tribute to Chopin

I think it is outstanding and holds up well to the original theme & introduces some very original beautiful material.

Of course you're right, Mati, and I thank you for the correction. Dang, how did I overlook that?

Steven

Also the manuscripts of a least six more unpublished waltzes were destroyed when the Russians trashed Chopin's mother's apartment in 1863. We know about the six waltzes from a little "catalogue" Ludwika kept. She'd copied out the first lines of each one in it.

I wonder if the depredations of war, fire, etc. explain why we don't have any of Ludwika's own compositions? (Or do we?) We've heard she wrote some excellent mazurkas, but we never get to see or hear them. I wonder what else she may have written?

My patient who lent me the Olga Kern concerto CD also supplied me with CD's of lieder by Fanny Mendelssohn and Clara Schumann. I just finished listening to Fanny's collection. Quite a respectable group of songs, a number of them with poetry by Goethe. I haven't heard Clara's yet, but I did recently hear an album of her piano works, including a really lovely trio that has, to my ear, a Russian flavor.

I never understood why, when Fanny Mendelssohn practically begged to meet Chopin, he kept putting her off.

Elene

Menancy, thank you for posting the Heller piece, which I'm sure I'd never have encountered if you hadn't brought it to our attention.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone look as uncomfortable at the piano as Mr. Kunazawa. I got to wondering if his right shoulder had been injured.

Apparently the PTNA (Piano Teachers National Association of Japan) is cataloguing lots of piano works on video? Their website in English didn't explain anything about that. Looks like a worthwhile group.

http://www.piano.or.jp/english/about/

Elene

Your welcome Elene,

I was wondering what you or anyone else thought of the Heller piece. Chopin's E minor Prelude is so well known & loved by so many that when I first learned that it was expanded upon I thought... Why? But I really liked Heller's development(variation)of the theme.

Just curious what the Chopin Experts thought.

Hi Menancy:

To be honest, I didn't care for the Heller "variation." This piece is so simple and eloquent as it is, it doesn't need any embellisment. In fact, often times the sweet melody is drowned out by those chords in the LH. And it goes on much too long. So much so that it becomes tedious. Like the #7 prelude, it is the brevity that completes the emotional appeal of this prelude. We must remember that Chopin loved the human voice, and he tried to duplicate it in so many of his compositions. I think he would roll over in his grade if he were to hear Heller's "take" on it.

On another "note" to those in the know: Would it be correct it stating that Chopin composed approximately 300 compositions (for piano AND other instruments)? I know many were published after his death, but we could still give me credit tor those, can't we? I know I've read that some believe he wrote over 500, but so many of these were just scraps and notes written on pieces of paper and never finsihed.

Kathleen

Could someone please tell me why, when I am writing a long post, that I get to a certain point and the cursor keeps jumping around .and I can't see what I am writing? How do I get a full screen that allows me more room?

Thanks,
K

Approximately 235 completed compositions of all types survive.

Kathleen, I know you've asked about that computer issue before. I'm not sure it's possible to answer it without knowing detailed information about your hardware and software. I recommend, as Elene has mentioned, that you keep some kind of text processing program open, compose your posts there, and then copy and paste into the Reply form here.

Word is always nice because of its functionality, but you could use Works, Wordpad, Notepad, WordPerfect ... anything, really, to protect you from losing your work in the event your web browser misbehaves or freezes.

Steven

Thanks for the info, Steven. That number is good to know.

And I apologize for all my typos. Without my computer glasses on, I can't see what I'm typing, and, of course, I'm too lazy to get them from the piano bench, where they normally reside.

I have learned my lesson. From now on, I am doing a cut and paste.

My best,
Kathleen

Chopin was on "Bones" last night. The episode was about a teen-age Quaker who chose his religion over music. The Quakers do not approve of music; they think it evil.

At one point, the parents were watching a video he made, one where he was playing a Chopin nocturne. His father said something like: "This is so beautiful, it must have been written by God."

How 'bout that!!

Kathleen

I've already erased the show, but my recollection is different.

I do remember that 9/1 was heard at least twice in the episode, notably in the final scene's video performance. But it was the Amish neighbor girl's brother who mentioned music so beautiful that it "came from God," and he was describing Clair de Lune.

Steven

Ha!

That makes me think of the book "Balzac and the little chinese seamstress."

During the cultural revolution the boy plays his violin before the villagers. The village chief finds it suspicious, sounds like western propaganda. He threatens "what is this" and the boy reponds, "it's called "Mozart hails the great Chairman Mao!" "

Sorry, Steven, but your memory hasn’t served you correctly. I know my memory isn’t the greatest, but I absolutely stand by it on this one.

I believe the 9/1 was actually heard (in part) on 3 different occasions. The first time was in the Institute. The “team” watched it. The DVD started off with a duet (Seth and a young lady) playing the “Maple Leaf Rag.” Then the teen was prompted to play the Chopin, which he did. This was to be his audition piece for the Conservatory.

The second time, it was played for his parents, at their home. I can see them sitting together and remember very distinctly the look on their faces as the opening bars of the nocturne began. And it went on for about two minutes. It was while the DVD was still playing that the father uttered those words.

The third time was back at the Institute at the end of the episode. The team, once again, watching it. Seth again, playing the 9/1 and after he finished playing a small section, he looked up into the camera and smiled. This was the best part of the whole episode and also the most heartbreaking. Such a waste.

You are correct about the brother and Claire de Lune. He was being questioned by Booth about Seth’s murder. The brother said that he went to see Seth to remind him of his promise to marry Sarah (the brother’s sister). But then the brother said that Seth played some thing for him on the piano (it was Claire de Lune ) and the brother thought it magical and changed his mind about trying to bring Seth back home.

Gosh, I really went into too much detail, but I think this episode was one if not the best of the Bone’s series that I have watched.

I have noticed, as I have mentioned before, that so very often, on television, when a piano piece is called for or just perhaps some gentle music, it is very often Chopin's. This gives me a lot of hope because I'm sure that "younger" people are doing the programming, and Chopin's music is familar to them. ,

Welcome landorrano: Your quote was very interesting.

Kathleen

You may be interested to know that Chopin made a cameo appearance on the SHO TV series, "Dexter", which revolves around the life of a serial killer (the main character). l caught a re-run last week in which the FBI agent was mulling over clues, trying to solve the mystery of the Bay Harbor Butcher. He informed his younger colleague that he always listened to Chopin when trying to solve a case.
"Chopin is perfect", he said to his skeptical younger colleague. "I solve things from a peaceful place", implicating that Chopin's music brought him peace.
In the next scene, the younger officer is seen working out at the gym with sounds of Chopin's nocturne 9/2 coming from her iPod. She later admitted to the senior FBI agent that yes, she had finally downloaded some Chopin. "..His nocturne no. 2 in E flat", she said, to which the FBI agent replied, "One of my favorites."
It's an interesting juxtaposition: Chopin's music, particularly his nocturnes, with grisly murder mysteries. I somehow doubt that Chopin envisioned his music being portrayed as helping to solve murder mysteries! I wonder if it really happens?

The film 'Fame' has just been released in the cinema and it contains four pieces by Chopin. Im not sure if they're in full, as I only heard this from my mum and sister. They are:

Prelude no. 11 in B major
Prelude no. 6 in B minor
Polonaise in A op. 40 no. 1
Nocturne in C-sharp minor op post.

Upon telling me this, my sister said jokingly of the c-sharp minor nocturne, "and they played it much better than you do".