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Why not? Because the ends justify the means?

You in particular may be fine with it but not everybody would be; there is no reason to assume everyone thinks like you do. You have no idea exactly what each performer in those videos and their parents think unless you've directly spoken with them about making such a thread in a popular, public piano forum.

Let's think of the possibilities: do you feel OK if your child is being ridiculed on the net without your knowledge? That random strangers say she didn't deserve what she got because of the judges, not due to her performance? If the videos were linked elsewhere, do you feel OK if your daughter is praised by people who refer to girls as "lolis"? Do you feel OK if your child finds out that he or she is being put on the spot online? These are just a few of many other concerns parents may have - parents who don't think exactly like you do.

This isn't limited to children's performances. I'd be pretty upset if these were videos of me taken without permission. It can make a solid court case of copyright infringement and invasion of privacy where I am. Eager prosecutors might even throw in charges along the lines of exploiting children.

MA, I get the feeling from your original post that you're not happy with the judges' decisions but asking people to judge the kids, possibly without proper permissions, can get you into serious trouble. Even if you receive responses in favor of the performer(s) you're rooting for, I don't believe the child(ren) would be happy about "justice" being served in this manner on a public forum. Peace.

We live in an odd world, and I think we have increasingly to accept that there is no longer such a thing as privacy. I'm not saying that's necessarily good -- although I believe in some senses it is -- but it's my observation. Governments respond to the increasing loss of privacy driven by technology by enacting a heap of hodge-podge, ill-considered legislation. Institutions respond mainly as Kreisler has done -- by banning all forms of photography (which, in the UK at least, they're entitled to do on their own land, at least for now). But it seems that technology is abolishing privacy faster than society can deal with it.

Anyway, it seems to me that there are enough parents who are unhappy about images of their kids being circulated -- for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly -- that I'd be reluctant to do so without their approval. For me, it seems a matter of courtesy more than one of ethics.

Also, in the UK at least, publishing a video of a person's piano performance, without permission, on a public web site would most definitely amount to a breach of that person's intellectual property rights and is a criminal offence. Again, that's an observation rather than a statement of approval on my part

I meant Phlebas, not Kreisler. You said it with reference to him. The point remains, however. The fact that he does not have a daughter in the competition is irrelevant to whether or not he can empathize ...except perhaps your little world where you simply seem to want to fight and troll.

Folks, this is indeed turning into a trolling session.

They are all winners in my book. MA, if your kid is one of those girls, you should be proud of her. Why cares about the ranking by the judges?

That was strange, my statement didn't print in the above post.

You go Piano Dad. Rarely do we see you get your dander up. You are usually the voice of reason.

This post has been disturbing from the beginning.

If I answered No, then I'd be asked "Who posted it then?" And the next question would be "What's your relationship to that person?" So I won't get into this.

It really doesn't matter whether I posted it. How many times have people linked to YouTube videos without questioning whether they were posted legally? Are they just as guilty?

If the videos are on YouTube and you're able to embed them, then nothing "wrong" legally has happened.

I could care less. I was just curious. Art is subjective. That's why I really like to know what the judges were thinking, but it's impossible unless I know them in person.

This competition is unique in that it's the only one that I know of (at least in Northern Calif.) that publishes specific instructions on the difficulty of repertoire. So how would the judges choose? The child who plays a piece that's x% more difficult but y% less perfect than another child or vice versa?

With the diverse vocal members of this forum, I was hoping to learn what the experts would listen for and the thinking behind their possibly different rankings. Unfortunately, we are caught up in the debate of something else.

By "guilty" I meant in the ethical sense but not the legal sense as it clearly is legal.

I agree. Maybe I will remove the links as it seems that no more people will care or dare to rank the performances.

MA,

Now you tell us:
"With the diverse vocal members of this forum, I was hoping to learn what the experts would listen for and the thinking behind their possibly different rankings. Unfortunately, we are caught up in the debate of something else."

Did you ever say this before?
You might have had a different reaction.

MA: "Maybe I will remove the links as it seems that no more people will care or dare to rank the performances."

Now that you are going to remove the links, I would think of that as a self-protective step to take.

I don't think much gets by past the piano teachers forum. We are very diverse and can be opinionated to various degrees depending upon the complexity or difficulty of a problem. The ethics of situations are important to a lot of us.

I was simply responding to C.Y.



Yes, but maybe not in so many words. I am not a verbose person.

If I were a teacher and always questioned a student or the parent’s motive behind a question and assumed the worst intent I could imagine before even considering answering it, then I probably shouldn’t be a teacher. A teacher’s job is to teach, not preach.



“Self-protective” from what? I wouldn’t worry even if I had videotaped it and posted it on YouTube myself. I have worked with various lawyers specializing in different areas, and it doesn’t surprise me anymore when someone thinks he knows the law when he actually has very little understanding of it.

BTW, I didn’t say I would remove the links. I said maybe. As a courtesy.



You may be highly ethical, but it doesn’t mean other people are less ethical. Take abortion. Who’s more ethical? The pro-life people or the pro-choice ones. Or those who don’t take a stand. I have paid people I had to lay off way more than required by law while others pay just the minimum, which sometimes amounts to nothing, but I don’t think they are less ethical. I try to not judge people because I would be the one being judged.

In my little world I have worked in different countries with peoples of different cultures and seen first hand what you can’t even imagine in your world, and too often I got in trouble when I put myself in someone else’s shoes. It got us in this whole mess we have now in the Middle East because we had thought that the people there would love us if we “liberate” them and give them “democracy”. I’d rather live in my little world than having a small mind.

I never start a fight but always finishes one. If I wanted a fight, I’d at least fight it on my own and not call for reinforcement.