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Hey, who says your local piano teacher can't be as competitive and enterprising as your conservatory professors??? Some of the best piano teachers in my area are not affiliated with any college, unversity, conservatory, or music school prgrams.

I'm just saying...

Nevertheless, when a mother says that about her own child, it does come across in ways you did not intend. The problem is, there are so many "major talents" out there, just hop on Youtube and you'd find dozens of young pianists who are outstanding--and that's just the ones who put their videos on Youtube! When you get involved in piano competitions, you are going to be shocked by the level of playing today.

After four years of such events, almost nothing could shock me any more.

The conservatory faculty said it, or his first teachers (the ones who prompted you to send him to the conservatory)? And, if it was the conservatory faculty, was it something more along the lines of 'he has the *potential* to be a major talent'? Cause I'm guessing they'd hedge their bets.

To be blunt, I'm guessing the attitudes of the conservatory faculty is that their job is preparing future artists, not hand-holding parents who don't understand the situation...which is...it is patently ridiculous to bring your child to the high pressure and high expectations of a conservatory environment and then complain about it.

The chances of even 'major talents' of age 9 eventually making a career as a performer are small enough that relatively few teachers are going to devote major amounts of time and energy to high maintenance *parents* (as opposed to actually teaching students). And trying to tell a conservatory teacher they are expecting too much is the fast track to no longer being in the conservatory. That's what you're there for. That's what it takes (in the opinion of the teacher and conservatory).

If you want to stay in the conservatory, what you need is a crash course in what it means to be a conservatory student and conservatory parent. I would suggest you ask someone in the administrative offices if they could recommend an experienced parent as sort of a 'native guide' to the conservatory experience. Explain that you feel you have stepped on toes through your lack of understanding (plead ignorance) and you deeply regret it, and want to do what it takes to correct the situation. You know this is high stakes and are very nervous about doing the right thing for your child etc.

Conservatory faculty are no doubt quite used to weeding out those who are "gifted" but not willing to buckle down and do the work. When little Johnnie whines that it's "too hard" and "not as fun as Miss Nice who hugged him a lot and didn't expect him to practice so much and told him he was wonderful" little Johnnie's teacher is not likely to be enthused if the parents tell him to 'be nicer' and 'not so tough.' If 'nicer' and 'not so tough' is what is important, then you need to go back to Miss Nice.

Edited to add: I could be completely wrong but I'm guessing that a lot of what's going on with your kid (whichever gender it turns out to be) is that all of a sudden s/he is not the biggest duck in the little pond. S/he is expected to work harder than s/he ever did before...and is beginning to be very afraid s/he is not really quite as good as s/he thought s/he was (or the old teachers said). Quitting is easier than trying and failing, and a lot better on the ego.

When you think of the riches life holds for a 9 year old, someone who as yet knows nothing of its wonders and possibilities. You'd need to be a __________ (fill in your pejorative term here) person to turn that tap off. Though to be fair me, I'm still p*ssed off at Leopold Mozart for not letting his kid go to Uni!

i am advocating for the student on his behalf.

Yes, I do need a parent mentor to explain all this to me. Thanks Prodigal for the great advice. My child could also use a teen mentor to explain to him why he needs a more mature attitude.

That will come with time, and everyone's different. I didn't get more serious about things until I was much older and learned to appreciate the gift I had (not that I'm uber talented or anything). Encouraging him and making it positive is the best thing you can do for him, with a gentle nudge every once in a while if he slacks off .

I'm pretty sure Prodigal Pianist was exaggerating for effect. There are some great teachers to be found among the private ones... who specialize in teaching gifted children of your son's age. High school + private instruction will help... because conservatory is college. He'll be ready by the time it happens.

Good luck to you both.

To the OP: I think your main problem was not speaking directly to the teacher in question. The teacher's main problem was not accepting gracefully the turn of events. He should not have spoken ill of you before attaining further clarification from you.

I can relate to the OP in one respect. You sometimes hear teachers of any subject, not just piano, speak in ways that are far beyond their students' capacities. While they might be perfect for a teenager or adult, they don't have the gift of simplicity that they need for a beginner. To the OP, don't second-guess yourself now that you've experienced emotional upheaval. Go with your first impulse.


As a side note to one poster (Kreisler?), it is often declasse for a teacher to ask why he or she is being dropped. You can usually figure it out anyways by reviewing your exchanges with the parent. You can't assume you need to improve at all. Perhaps it's just a bad fit.

Likewise, it's declasse for a teacher to ask a parent why he or she dropped the teacher before you or even who that teacher was. These things usually become clear in time.

We can quibble about the definition of the term `employer' as much as we like -- it's pointless because, apart from anything else, the legal notion of employer will vary from one jurisdiction to another.

But the basic principle -- that as a parent I'm entitled to pursue my children's best interests by disbursing money to whom I see fit -- remains sound.

I don't know enough about music pedagogy to know whether my children are being taught in the most effective way, but I would certainly know if they were unhappy. I wouldn't attempt to tell their teachers how to teach music -- I wouldn't have a clue. But if they were consistently making my kids cry, I would think that the `employment' relationship (or whatever you choose to call it) would extent far enough for me to ask them to think about whether they could do things differently. If that makes me the parent from heck, then so be it.

One day, my children will be old enough to decide, if they wish, that they can put up with a certain amount of unhappiness in return for future benefits. But I'm not going to make a decision like that on behalf of an 8-year old.

I agree!

In the area where I live and teach I would say that I am one of the more competitive teachers and have high standards. There are plenty of other teachers who don't.

Busymom... some teenagers dont mature until they get into university. I didn't take up music studies seriously until I was 14, for the other time (8 -13 ... 6 years!) particually when I was 8 I was one heck of a pain. I never practiced and whenever I did I would make such a big deal out of it. I used to practice standing up so I could run to the clock! I don't think your son needs a teenage mentor, though, I think inspiring him by taking him to concerts (not just piano concerts) but concerts of different types could really motivate him.

I also think associations with students who are musical would be fun... it gets really fun in the teen years where people can fiddle and play on instruments together.

As you say, he has a balanced life already and kudos to you for making sure that happens. Being so career focused at his age is a bit of a concern, my mum never sent me to lessons so that I would be a concert pianist, she sent me because if I ever wanted to be a musician then it would be an OPTION. Infact my piano teacher goes by that principle, he has encouraged my talents in other areas and fields. As an adolescent I love to write, I am an English major. The intimacy in language that I have acquired has allowed me to appreciate some English Art Songs by Vaughan Williams and Gibbs.

There is so much that your son is yet to explore, concert pianist dream today, scientist ambition tomorrow, it should be a possibility, it should be an option, another avenue not a definate destination.

Sorry if that came across as condescending. If you are offended I didn't mean it.

All the best to you and your son, what are your plans now? Does he play a second instrument?

I agree wholeheartedly. However, I do not see where the OP said the teacher made her son cry. She simply stated that if she were the student that had to work on one passage for the lesson *she* would have cried. The student in question wasn't even her son, and there was no indication that he was crying. I'm just making the point that we do not have any indication that the teacher made any student cry.

I have spent a good chunk of lesson time working with students on one passage. It has never brought tears. In fact, it's kind of fun the way we approach it.

It would help if someone could put together an advice list for my son. ProdigalPianist hit on most of the points for parents to know, but my son might find her frank advice scary. My son is 10 actually, and his gift is in composition, although he plays piano well too (not competitively though). I will print out your advice and give it to him to read.

These are the things he needs to learn now, if you can phrase it in music parlance for him:

1. He must practice piano regularly instead of sporadically because the brain needs regular practice in order to build the muscular/neurological connections for skilled piano playing. This is different from composition studies where sporadic work is fine.

2. Conservatory teachers are serious professionals who are training the next generations of musicians/performers and they not interested in babying students or dealing with angry parents who don't understand the music education business.

3. He is very privileged to be at a conservatory and getting a partial scholarship. Focus on the positives (the talented teachers, the wonderful concerts) and not on the negatives (egos, competition, culture clash, etc).

4. If he seriously wants to reach his goal, he is at the right place, but he needs to do the work.

5. He must stop complaining about the work load or they will kick him out or cancel his scholarship. If it's too hard for him, he can quit or go to an easier music school (we will still love him and he can always change his mind).

6. He has to voice his own complaints to his teachers and leave me out of it. Teachers do not like hearing student's complaints from parents. If he needs help with a teacher, then he can ask the Director to help him (but leave mom out of it!)

7. Be super nice to everyone and do not bad mouth the last teacher or anyone else there. If anyone brings it up, just say "he was a great teacher but I wanted someone different for a change." He must limit the damage done by the change.

8. Do not be angry about the broo-ha-ha with the last teacher - it was caused by ignorance about the conservatory culture. Go up to him and apologize for hurting his feelings and tell him how much you appreciate everything he did for you.

9. Stay well rounded and do other fun activities.

did I leave anything out for my son?


Advice for parents:

1. Find a mentor at the school to advice me on conservatory matters and how to support my son.

2. Look in and say "Hi" to the teachers and let them know I am available for help if needed by cell phone, but do not hover or sit in the room during lessons.

3. Let all future teachers know that my new policy is "my son voices his own complaints directly to you and I will not act as a go between bc I don't understand music anyway. The Director is available to help resolve disagreements."

4. Do not bad mouth anyone there and do not talk about the old teacher or the broo-ha-ha with him.

5. Stay positive and supportive of the school (which I always was before this).

did I leave anything out for me?

That makes a lot of sense. We don't know if it applies in this case, but it may be a distinct possibility.




Are you sure you want to admit that!

Competitiveness can become an obsession, especially when it gets mixed with concerns about career. That's stressful for a twenty-something. I wouldn't want to burden a really young one with any fears at all about the consequences of their practicing and playing. Children are pretty good at sensing fear and worry in their parents, even if they don't feel it directly themselves.

This may sound funny coming from me, I know. But the last thing I would ever want my own son to feel as he prepares for recitals and competitions is fear of consequences for 'losing' or for 'failing.' He knows quite well that preparation leads to better results. All I ever ask of him is that he prepare well. The actual outcome depends on so many intangibles that you cannot control. If he plays well and enjoys the process, he as accomplished everything of value. If he wins or places, so much the better. And none of this is related at all (at least not yet) to his future career.

All he needs to do is what his teachers tell him. Keep working hard, that's all. Politics are everywhere in life, and the best thing to do is steer clear of them. Don't say bad things about people (which is good advice in any situation) so you don't burn any bridges.

Yes, fair enough. That was just my hyperbole.

FWIW, For my part, I think it's OK for my kids' music teachers to irritate, nag, cajole, and criticise them. After all, that's no more than I do I don't think it's OK for their teachers to abuse them or treat them disrespectfully, and that's where the employer-employee relationship (or however one wishes to categorise it) comes into play.

The tricky thing is that children are not always able to distinguish criticism, cajoling, etc, from abuse, and I suspect that teachers are not always able to tell when children are not able to tell. It must be easy to cross that boundary without realising it from time to time. Which is why I think teachers of small children ought to be somewhat responsive to the parents' views. Of course that's harder to do in a group setting than when working one-to-one. If you've got one child who is easily upset or irritated by a particular teacher, and twenty others who have no problem, them I doubt there's an easy fix.

That's just by way of general remark. I'm not sure there's enough information in this thread to work out exactly what the problem is in the relationship between the various parties, which is none of my business anyway.

I just recently met a former Julliard attending pianist who could be a poster child for your statement. Apparently she was ultra competitive as a child, she did the whole competition circuit and did well, and that drive allowed her entrance into Julliard. However once she got to Julliard she started realizing that her quality of life pretty much sucked. It was consumed by nothing but stress caused by the need to compete and excel. It finally caught up to her and she dropped out and to this day doesn't even touch a piano (and seems perfectly happy in this decision). An extreme example perhaps, but a cautionary tale never the less.



We do exactly the same with our daughter. We emphasize doing her best, and what it takes for her to do her best (prep, practice, etc). It's impossible to completely take the pressure of winning away, esp if your kid is actually good enough to do so, but as parents we can help mitigate it somewhat by praising effort vs simply results. Plus we always remind her that a competition is one persons opinion about one performance at one point in time. The person who comes in first isn't necessarily "better" simply because they came in first, that is the nature of these subjective competitions.

Stepping back a bit though, as a parent, the other thing I think of is this. A particular competition is simply one of many in our little burgh, which is one of many in our little state, which is one of many in our country. If you take all the winners of all these competitions and look at what they will be doing when they are 24, I would hazard to guess that a rather overwhelming percentage will not be making their primary living as pianists (like single digit or even less), though a higher percentage will be musicians and/or at least actively engaged in making music. So given that, in the end, what's it all about? What exactly is the point of spending significant hours of ones childhood practicing and competing and all the angst associated with this? I think as parents we need to keep this in mind, and help our kids with this perspective.

Grown-ups have occasionally told me they find me scary, but with kids it's all about how you deliver the information. They generally are quick to get the point that you are telling them the (age appropriate) truth and are paying them a compliment by being...direct.



I don't know if I'd threaten him with being "kicked out" as much as I would tell him if the workload is too much for him or if he hates it that much he doesn't belong there anyway. The rest is good.



Teachers don't like hearing *complaints*, period.

Questions, requests for clarification...those are fine. Perhaps it's just your choice of words that is causing difficulty. What "complaints" does he have exactly? Too much work? Going to the director is not likely to earn him any goodwill from either party.

If it's worth going to the Director over - the teacher is actually doing something *inappropriate* (harsh, demeaning criticism, belittling) then the kid should not have to deal with it himself.

You don't go to Pizza Hut and then complain because they won't serve you a Big Mac and fries. You went to the conservatory, you're getting the conservatory experience (insofar as we can tell from your posts). If you don't want it, then go somewhere else for training.



This is an excellent idea but I think I'd say "upsetting him" rather than "hurting his feelings"...although, come to think of it, an apology for 'hurt feelings' (considering it's from a kid) might make a point to Mr. Big Ego.