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#1533519 - 10/12/10 12:30 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: anotherscott]  
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
I agree with you that it is beneficial to permit repetitions with small-travel returns; I only differ in that I think the issue of such a repeated note being undamped vs. damped is not of great significance.


That may well be your opinion, and that's fair enough, however it's possible you're missing the whole point as to why I posted the information on the actions. That is what a real grand piano does with regards the double escapement action and the motion of the dampers. This Casio range models that attribute accurately. Now you personally may feel it's not important, nobody can argue with that opinion, nevertheless clearly some think it's important or they wouldn't bother modelling it! I'll be perfectly honest and say that personally I noticed it when I first touched the keyboard, and I hadn't played a note in something like 30 years!! Indeed it's what sent me off to learn as much as I could about the piano actions as I was surprised Casio bothered modelling this. Now for me personally, with my "seek and destroy" method of playing, I still think it's novel if I happen to hit the occasional correct note so I sure as heck wouldn't miss it! On the other hand I can easily imagine someone with a little more ... errr "finesse" than I, may want to sustain specific notes when repeating them.

Pete


No that wasn't a bum note! It was my ... "artistic interpretation" emerging.
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#1533523 - 10/12/10 12:40 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Pete,
If you noticed that, without first being initiated in any way, I think that's quite incredible. smile

Just as an aside, I have used software (the Lounge Lizard electric piano modelling software) that does, or at least, USED TO, model the sound of a hammer hitting a tine/reed that is vibrating. It was quite authentic - the timbre and volume of the tone did jump around a lot. However, sometimes the repetitions were way too loud, and I see that this behaviour has been completely disabled now. ;^) (it doesn't even use voice overlapping, so repeated notes with the sustain pedal sound very bland indeed.)

Greg.


Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
#1533560 - 10/12/10 02:34 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: sullivang]  
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Greg, I fear the only time "incredible" should be used in context of my piano playing is when it's immediately proceeded with the word "bad" laugh Seriously though, maybe it's a product of too much time as a kid playing WITH the piano rather than playing the piano, as it seemed quite obvious to me. I was in the "showroom" (for lack of better description, I won't say where, but what a dump!) just striking keys on the few models they had on display and listening to the sound. When I got to the PX-130 I heard this straight away when I repeated with a light touch. Then I saw that it was actually when the key didn't come all the way up and I thought, "hey that's what my old (real) piano used to do". Given that none of the other keyboards I looked at in this price range did that, I bought the PX-330 on the spot. So while the feature may not be important to some, I can say without reservation that it led to at least ONE sale wink


No that wasn't a bum note! It was my ... "artistic interpretation" emerging.
#1533579 - 10/12/10 03:24 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Was your piano a grand, or an upright? I'm wondering whether even an upright can repeat without damping, but just at a higher point in the return. I have an old Wurlitzer electric piano (in an unknown state of regulation!), and it damps only when the keys are RIGHT at the top of their travel. A bit before this, yes, it can repeat.

Greg.


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#1533587 - 10/12/10 03:35 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: sullivang]  
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@Sullivang:

In the galaxy pianos and probably in other hardware and software pianos too, there is a "repetition killer".
That means -in the case of Galaxy- after the 4th one-note-repetition it starts killing notes to prevent too much overlayed notes. This wouldnt make sense because older notes are not audible but cost a lot of ressources.

I reviewed your MIDI and have seen that the first four notes are the only double escapement repetitions.
It would be interesting to test how many half stroke repetitions it can do. It should be clear, that it cannot send 100 NoteOns and then when the key is finally released, send 100 NoteOffs. Infinite nesting is impossible.

Can you test this?

Peter


1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
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#1533595 - 10/12/10 03:59 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Yes, the repetition killer makes a lot of sense. And yes, I have been wondering what the limit would be, too, however I wasn't going to bother testing it, because it would be so rare in practise to do so many partial repetitions. smile If I bother to test it, I'll certainly report back.

I count 6 occurrences of partial repetitions in my MIDI, at the following times: 3160, 10527, 13469, 17086, 18713, 27000.
Something interesting happens at 18713: there are 2 Note-Ons, only 1 Note-Off, a Note-On, and then 2 Note-Offs. It's balanced, but it's interesting that it doesn't always send the balancing Note-Offs as an atomic unit.

Greg.


Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
#1533597 - 10/12/10 04:06 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: sullivang]  
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I viewed it with MIDI OX and had different results.
I played it with the Kawai sequencer from floppy.
Will try to analyze it with GNMIDI when I am home again.


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#1533602 - 10/12/10 04:18 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Sorry Peter - I think I know what the problem is - I assumed that all my repetitions were on the one note. They were not - I was sloppy. I ignored the note number. You're almost correct - I have revised the count down to 2:

Time 3160 (3 reps)
Time 10527 (2 reps)

Ignore my previous comment about the balancing Note-Offs being out of order.

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 10/12/10 04:18 AM.

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#1533608 - 10/12/10 04:32 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Note that that MIDI isn't as fast as I can play, now that I think about it. It's as fast as I could play the PX-330 with reasonable consistency. I can play faster than the Casio allows when using the alternating hand method. (I'm pretty confident that it's not my technique) I'd love to have a high speed camera so I could prove whether it was my fault or the Casio's fault. ;^)

Greg.


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#1533618 - 10/12/10 04:46 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: sullivang]  
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Thanks for the correction and for the MIDI file and your work.
I will keep this and use it for future beta testing with Galaxy ;-)
Thats the reason why I analyzed it, I want to understand what happens.


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#1533633 - 10/12/10 05:28 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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You're welcome. smile

I've just tried another test. Recalling that post I referred to by Kawai, which said that an average grand can be expected to do 10 full stroke reps per second, I decided to try this on the Casio.
I set the metronome to 150 bpm, and played 16th-note reps.
Most reps were clean, but no matter how hard I concentrated, I could not produce a constant, consistent, stream of reps. Every now and then, something happens and it skips a rep. Again - this could be me. I can play at this speed (using alternating hands) very easily, so I'm certainly not strained at all, but my technique may not be good.

Greg.


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#1533639 - 10/12/10 05:45 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: sullivang]  
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Originally Posted by sullivang
I'd love to have a high speed camera so I could prove whether it was my fault or the Casio's fault. ;^)

You could record the keyboard noise with a microphone and see if the audio matches. It would probably be helpful to remove low frequencies to have only the click-clack noises....


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#1553922 - 11/08/10 09:41 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: sullivang]  
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Originally Posted by NoFingers
What about something like this? Think that may work?

http://accessories.musiciansfriend....RWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=578549420


Maybe, but I think it would require a splitter cable, because these Casios have two seperate pedal inputs - not a dual input.
(yes, it ALSO has a seperate proprietry input for the Casio 3-pedal unit)

Greg.


Not meaning to respond to an old post, but my M-audip sp2 broke. So long story short I'm looking at that Studiologic Dual pedal again. So you think the open polarity 2/mono jack version of that pedal will work with my Casio px330? I can't think of a reason it would not... but I thought I would ask here before I purchase. Hope this one lasts me a bit longer!!!

Oh, and as an afterthought - I did like the SP2. It functioned well for me until the metal pin in the pedal bent and snapped. I think it may have been faulty out of factory.

Last edited by NoFingers; 11/08/10 10:45 PM.
#1554420 - 11/09/10 05:53 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Nobody knows? Or Agree's?

Really need a new damper... =(


#1554430 - 11/09/10 06:05 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: NoFingers]  
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Hi,

if the Casio has the same 2 mono plugs and is normal open too, then I see no reason against it. It should work.

So far I know Fatar has also double pedals that have /one/ stereo plug. Be sure to choose the correct Fatar model.


1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
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#1554492 - 11/09/10 07:12 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Thank you Hpeterh. The Fatar double pedal that has 2 mono jacks is the Studiologic VFP-2/10MP.

I've seen that they make it with stereo, and with open and closed versions. I think the MP version is the one I want.

#1557789 - 11/14/10 08:32 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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One of the keys on my PX-330 has developed a reasonably loud "clack". The clack occurs when the key is released. The key is still functioning fine, but I find this sound objectionable.
It's the first E below middle C. I've only had it for 2 months, and it's had light use.

Greg.


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#1557948 - 11/15/10 12:16 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: sullivang]  
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It might be the felt used on the lower damper has been beaten flat on that key. I had a similar issue with the E above middle C on my Casio. Other keys eventually started getting noisy, almost chattering. I ended up fixing it myself. Instead of felt, I used two strips of door/window foam insulation sold at Home Depot or Lowes. I glued the strips one on top of the other than glued it to the lower half of the case. The foam seems to be a suitable replacement for the felt. I also took a strip of this stuff and put it under the overhang that covers the backs of the keys. My piano did not have any felt in this area as Casio used to leave this out on their older pianos. It's a lot quieter now.

Last edited by galaxy4t; 11/15/10 12:18 AM.
#1557987 - 11/15/10 12:37 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Thanks Galaxy4t. It seems a bit worrying that I have "beaten it flat" in only two months though! If they don't fix it under warranty, I'll open it up and try your suggestion.

My 9 year old Kawai MP9000 does have a few clacks too, but they're note quite as loud as the Casio clack, and the Kawai does it on the down-stroke, whereas the Casio does it on the up-stroke. It's not as distracting when it's on the down-stroke IMHO. Also, it's only recently that the Kawai started to clack - it went for years and years without any problems at all.

Greg.


Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
#1557997 - 11/15/10 01:08 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: sullivang]  
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Mine only took 4 months to develop the clacking and I was only using mine for 2-4 hours a week as it was outside in the garage for the first 6 months before it got moved in the house. I'm sure they will fix yours under warranty. I just didn't want to be without my piano and have them tell me it was normal to make the clacking sound and do nothing to fix it. I got rather attached to it and still am after nearly 2 years of owning it. Would be hard to live without.

#1580853 - 12/20/10 08:04 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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They sort of fixed the clacking problem (yes, under warranty), but now it has a different type of clack - it clacks on the downstroke instead of the upstroke. It's very loud when I do repetitions, and I'm not happy with it. Some other notes have this too, in fact, but the key they replaced is the worst, and it's also the key I will use the most out of the ones that clack. (it's the E immediately below middle C).

They're going to replace the entire key assembly for me next. I don't feel optimistic.

Greg.


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#1580885 - 12/20/10 08:46 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Just curious how are you shipping/delivering this to Casio? And who is paying for it the shipping?

OB

#1580927 - 12/20/10 09:42 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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I take it to the service agent myself. (they're in my area)

Greg.


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#1581035 - 12/21/10 12:17 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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If there are more than just one key making noise, perhaps you should ask them to replace the entire keybed? If the local shop will not do this, I think I would contact Casio.

#1581047 - 12/21/10 12:35 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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Yes, they are going to do just that. (I didn't make myself totally clear - I said "key assembly", when I really meant "key bed" - sorry).

Thanks,
Greg.


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#1581137 - 12/21/10 05:31 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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With mine (PX330), I let them repair it once (it was worse after repair), so then I didn't want them to try repairing it again and insteaded on a replacement machine, which they did and the replacement has been fine.

#1581552 - 12/21/10 06:08 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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My opinion is that Casio support need to make sure that their support engineers are also players. Then the engineers can properly test their keyboard repairs. Maybe this applies to all brands too.

#1581696 - 12/21/10 09:30 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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It's a bit tricky, because sometimes the problem is not consistent. For example, even though my key was consistently clunking at home, when I took it in for repair, it did not clunk straight away, and I had to play the note a bit before the problem occurred again.
They allowed me to talk directly to the technician that worked on my unit, and without going into any detail about our discussion, I really don't have any complaints about the technician at all.

Anyway, I hope I can get the clunking sorted, because I do actually like the PX-330 quite a lot.

Greg.


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#1581980 - 12/22/10 08:36 AM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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-
It's a shame Casio can't get the keyboards on the Privia range up to scratch, I'm referring mainly to the wobbly, toy like, feel to the keyboard rather than any faults which may develop after use. I bought my youngest granddaughter a used Casio AP-25 to thrash around on until she shows some promise, the keyboard on that model is excellent and that piano is a really old model, I'm guessing around 10 years old, what went wrong with the Privia design?
-

#1582317 - 12/22/10 06:11 PM Re: Casio New PX 130, PX 330, PX 730 Reviews [Re: Nikalette]  
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I haven't had any problems with wobbling keys yet. I really like the action in general. I'm learning a tricky piece at the moment which has some delicate "crushed" passing notes up on the black keys, and the Casio is easier to play than my MP9000. It's hard to say with any certainty exactly why it's better, but in general I don't need to play these notes as "deliberately" on the Casio as I have to on the MP9000. It's entirely possible that the MP is more like a real piano though. ;^)

Greg.
p.s The piece is "Babooshka" by Kate Bush, which appears to be in Ab minor. It is contemptible to try and reproduce her voice on a piano - I realise that. ;^)

Last edited by sullivang; 12/22/10 06:12 PM.

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