Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Socks and banning. (Beware Sock Puppet Masters)

As most of you know we had a recent incident with a publicly outed sock puppet.

There were many opinions on how the matter should be handled. Some thought that the humiliation was enough punishment, while others thought banning was appropriate.

Well, in order to seek out what was appropriate action, I went to the rules. It was then I discovered that the rules MAKE NO MENTION of sock puppets, nor did I find it stated abywhere "Do this and you will be banned". Pretty much it's been left up to the discretion of Frank B. and the moderator(s) of the forum to decide what action is proper in most circumstances. This has worked well and will continue to be practiced until such a time as Frank B. and the moderators deem it necessary to revise/rewtrite the rules.

In the matter of socks, though, we are taking a stand. There will be ZERO tolerance for sock puppets. Be a sock and be banned. Period.

If you are a sock or have a sock and have not been discovered, pick ONE user account and and use it exclusively. Do not ever use the other screen name again.

ANYONE CAUGHT USING A SOCK PUPPET WILL BE BANNED ONCE DISCOVERED! NO matter who you are.

Two members have been banned as of today due to the use of sock puppets. They are:
Pianomadam, using the sock of cklavier, and TheFakeLarryFine, using the sock of threebees.

Thank you everyone for your patience.

Ken

Thank you, Ken (and Frank) for your follow-through on this issue. I agree with your stance completely and think PW will be better as a result of implementing this policy.

good job - thank you

An excellent solution, if a bit slow in coming.

Fake's [Threebees] last post is up on the board right now. It ends with a plea to "Promote this junior member to platinum." I'm not sure what you've done is what he had in mind.

Fantastic! Thanks Ken and Frank... Fair and balanced.

Bear

Thank you so much guys We have found this site to be of great help on lots of subjects and are very happy that we can continue to find it so.

Arrrrgh

Fake has posted since he was banned. I hope the banning isn't a voluntary participation thing.

No. It's not voluntary. Perhaps Frank missed one, or didn't push all the buttons yet. If so he will see this topic and act.

Ken

I remember when I changed my nick to part of my REAL name. Suddenly everyone thought I was Norbert. I quickly went back and used this made-up name to save his reputation.

Thanks, too! Dang, I hadn't even known about that Fake Larry Fine guy using a puppet...all I'd seen some of his rather boorish posts under that name.

Did he get caught with his pants down like Pianomadam?

Sounds right to me.

Thanks for making a hard call.

Horwitzian - no, a member pointed similarities in their posts so I looked further and made the discovery.

Steve - You're right, it was a hard call. In the long run I think it will be best for Piano World.

Ken

Thanks for the info, Ken.

Cheers!

Goodbye all and best of luck

...so then why isn't everyone given a fair chance as of the decision? If there was no mention of sock puppets in the rules, it would appear that Pianomadam was playing within those rules at that time, as were a number of other individuals that hadn't been caught.

Although I don't have a personal interest in having Pianomadam nor TFLF stay, it seems that banning them for previous behaviour is punishing them for breaking rules that were not (and still are not) in place.

Does this mean then, that it is open season for exposing the rest of the culprits on here?

Is this action sent as a warning to only to future offenders, or can we/should we hunt around and look for socks in the history and then report them to the mods?

Please understand that I am all for enforcing the rules, but I believe the action taken in this case is not an example of that taking place, but rather a response to some very emotional reactions to an event with a self-serving member.

Also, I think it wise to remember that this forum, since it includes dealers and technicians, will always include advice/opinions/FUD tactics from many more undiscovered, and slightly more crafty Pianomadams. This is one of the reasons Piano World will remain a very dangerous place to those seeking honest and impartial guidance or advice. Not that there isn't some excellent advice given on here, but really, how many new piano buyers can separate the real information from the clever obfuscation? And how many new piano buyers will be influenced by how many positive hits brand x has compared to the negative hits brand y has?


Interesting to see how everything plays out from here...

How interesting.

I am sure that some of the more enterprising among us will now see this as a challenge. Let the sock puppetry entertainment commence.

It is surely not difficult for a determined sock. One id at home, one at work, two different IP addresses. Apparently router IP addresses can also be changed quite easily (necessary if a sockie is rumbled).

I would love to know how many memberships lie dormant, registered eons ago, just waiting for sock activation.

That said, I am glad that a clear policy has been put in place.

Well done Ken and Frank

No, it's not. As I said in my original post it was always up to the moderator(s) and Frank B. how situations should be handled. There have been people banned as socks in the past. The problem was that everyone was screaming that the rules were broken and there was not an actual rule. I do not for one minute believe that anyone playing sock puppet believed that it was ok to do. Especially with all the talk on here over the years about it. And with all the talk about "why don't they enforce the rules", I never saw anybody say, "wait a munute, there's no rule against it". Nobody checked for themselves - it was all assumed. Now it's not.

This was a tough decision and all you've said was taken into consideration. It's easy when you're dealing with mean people. Neither of these people are mean.

Ken

While the rules don't specifically prohibit socks, they do prohibit self-promotion. IMO, having just re-read the rules, PM was guilty of violating several of them - sublty and indirectly, yes - but perhaps that's even worse.

Regardless of all that, not banning PM would have made a sad statement about the importance of truth, accuracy, and credibility on this forum.

I spoke out about enforcing the rules, but always assumed there was one. As Ken noted this subject has come up many times so there is no doubt in my mind that the guilty parties knew the potential consequences. I am very pleased to know that there is now a clear policy and that those who have been caught have suffered an appropriate consequence. PW will be a better place for this. Thank you.