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Do any of you drop students if they don't practice? Do you give a month probationary period? Or perhaps talk with parents about the problem (more than just encouraging practice)? Ask if the student is really interested in learning to play piano?

I am not quite ready to let a couple of students go (teens who have only had 1 year of lessons and hardly any practice)...but I'm getting close. I only have 3 openings left. If I get to where I have a waiting list, perhaps that is when I will choose to drop those who are unwilling to practice.I'm considering asking the two in particular who make no effort if there is anything they'd like me to teach them.

I saw "I'm willing to teach anyone who practices" on a post. May come up with ways to address it in my policies...yet feel reluctant to sound negative. So far I just repeatedly point out that regular practice is necessary for success in learning piano.

I've gotten close myself, but never done it.

Teens? Are we talking high school students here, or middle school?

If they are HS, I recommend being quite direct with them. Discuss the importance of preparing lessons, whether for piano, algebra, language class, history, or what ever. You cannot make any meaningful progress in anything without preparation. Not even cooking, sewing, driving, sports, anything. So what's the issue? You need to put the monkey on their back, get it off of your back. Make them responsible by choosing your words so that they are the actors, not you.

FWIW, I tell my less well-prepared HS students, "You decide. You decide how much you want to progress this year. You decide how advanced at piano you want to be. What ever you decide, I'll help you. And what I can tell you is that if you decide for max effort, you'll get to here (and I illustrate some repertoire they could play)."

PS If you find yourself developing a waiting list, it means your rates are too low. Adjust them upward.

Thank you Stanny and John for your comments. John, one is a 7th grader and one a 10th grader. I took notes on your post...so eloquent and right to the point. I find it helpful to think of it as putting the monkey on their back.

I really have felt as though it's a bad reflection on me...and I'm anticipating how it will look when I have a piano party. Parents making judgements.(Monkey on my back.) It will be obvious that some are much better players with about the same length of time in lessons. But I'm trying to focus on my reasons for the party...get kids performing for each other and having fun with playing and motivate them to polish some pieces). It's not about my trying to prove myself.

I'm just starting my 3rd year of teaching and have increased my rates each summer. I'm not sure what I'll do next year...increase or not...but if I get a waiting list that will be a consideration. What's helping me is that I'm in a great location for teaching kids...close to the better schools in our area.

Just for some perspective (I am not a piano teacher) if these same kids didn't do their homework, or practice for dance class, there would punishment or consequences. In dance, if you don't keep up, you get demoted to perform something you can pull off without making a mockery of the hard work everyone else put in. In my company, it was not unthinkable that a 17 year old might not have a real part if she was spacing out and being a jerk! I wonder if you warned them that they would be playing 'Mary had a little lamb' at the party if they didn't commit would change things at all. Appeal to the ego....? Good luck, I am curious to see what works (I teach in other contexts, so love to read these posts!)

Haha, Mary Had a Little Lamb! Love it!

I think asking them what they want to learn is a great approach. Put the onus on them to find a piece, and then make a bargain with them: you will teach them *that* piece, if they also agree to practice *this* piece, and choose one that you think they would like, but that they need to learn in order to progress.

Then talk with them about their schedules. Write down every activity they have and approximate time it takes to do said activity. Also include time needed to do homework each day. Then from that develop a schedule where they can practice and set a minimum amount of time every day. When just starting out, I tell them that 5 out of 7 days they will progress well and be much more satisfied with their playing. Let them pick the 2 days off they will have each week, but they cannot be in a row. You can decide if lessons days 'count' toward practice or not - it might be easier to do this then you're only asking for 4 days when you don't see them.

If they agree to this schedule, then be sure you have them write down their practice times each week so you can monitor it. Something else I tell them is that 5 minutes is better than no minutes, so to make sure they at least sit at the piano on these days, but the goal is to make it for their full practice time, so you can't have (4) 5-minute days. Usually I tell them this 5 minute rule once I try to get them to practice every day, and not just 5 days a week.

Once they get started on this, it does build momentum, and they really start enjoying it and wanting to get better. It takes 21 days to develop a habit, so have them commit to doing this for a month. Of course, if their schedule changes, you will need to revisit things, because that can throw you off. Just because something is a "habit" doens't mean you'll do it forever. Practice takes conscious effort.

There is another reason for keeping a waiting list. It gives you the ability to choose which students you want.

Piano teaching is not quite like the market for cars, steel, or hamburgers. The car maker doesn't really care about the attributes of who buys their cars as long as they have the willingness and ability to pay. You, on the other hand, are affected by your students. It's a personal service you are delivering and the effects on you are not all monetary. You feel bad if a student is not putting out effort. This is important when you realize that this time slot could be 'sold' to someone else who would pay you the same price AND give you greater non-monetary rewards of doing your job.

Your students also can affect each other, especially if you bring them together as a group on occasion to build camaraderie and support networks within the studio. This is a great idea, IMO when you have middle school kids (often boys) who are under peer pressure to drop this sissy music stuff. If peer effects can be positive reinforcements (good students encouraging others to strive to reach higher), they can also be negative. You and your other students gain by replacing unmotivated students with motivated students.

Lastly, you have long term reputation issues to consider. If you persist in working with unmotivated students you may lose business that you are not even aware of because word of mouth is steering people toward teachers whose studios get 'better' results. No one may be aware of how much hair you have ripped out trying to bring light into particular young lives. All that is seen publicly is the outcome.

P*D, I see the motivation, qualitative issue as separate from the rate issue. The only index you have to the market is your fee. If you keep your rates up where you discourage dabblers, you will most likely have a studio of motivated students, anyway. Teens need help becoming adults, and we can help them along this path. Most piano parents are not like you (only in our dream studio) a parent who provides a top quality instrument, and involved parental support. The two students in question no doubt have ability and musicality, or they wouldn't be long in Ann's studio. Their parents are probably overburdened and over committed. How can Ann help these two without making it her problem not their problem?

This is a tough thing to answer, but each teacher has to arrive at a conclusion as to what students they are going to allow to continue or get into their studio. This idea may change over the years, too. Sometimes those non-practicers really do need whatever encouragement you will give them. You may never see the fruits of that labor, but you have to trust that it is not a waste. The only caveat is if they don't like piano, then it is a waste for everyone involved.

Would a sit down discussion with the parents and the student and the teacher help work through this problem to begin to find a solution? Not to find fault or demand a result, but to counsel and say we have come from this other point and this is where we are today at this point and we must consider some changes.

You can be encouraging about what needs to happen or you can be finger pointing about them dropping the ball and they need to shape up. You can put them on a probationary list or you can remove them now with no further adieu.

What is the path that with the problem now shared by all participants would lead to everyone respecting each other and tasking together now and in the continuing future to do what is needed to get the results (communicated as a goal) you have asked for?

Reality is best. Working it throught in your teaching head just continues the problem indefinitely. You need to have a round table talk with respect and concern for the student and each other. Help him to find his voice to tell you and his parents what he is coping with and how he sees this situation. For instance, maybe he's just not getting it and feels like he's failing? Who knows what on his mind - he may not even know - but he has to try to communicate from his viewpoint. Other wise, every one is guessing about it.

I've had a lot of young males who are not up front or open about their piano experiences. If anger or bad behavior was part of their situation I soon decided to disconnect, but if it was uncertainty, immaturity, or self-esteemed I continued instruction thinking this person can bloom from what "piano" has to offer.

Part of why I teach piano is that we can make a big difference in people's lives through music. As long as I have that hope for them, and as long as they are interested in lessons, I try to stay availabe for them, however long that turns out to be. At the same time, I am encouraging and asking for everything I need for the student and the parents to contribute so that we can all reach our goal in being supportive to the student.

We sometimes have to pave the path by instructing what roles they need to be playing when involved in piano lessons. If they can understand that just being there is not quite enough from them. Give them some suggestions about what you think would make a difference at this point.

We sometimes don't know the influence we have, and sometimes we are reluctant to use it. Being concerned about criticism, I think, is that you haven't had much criticism to experience, and you'd like to keep it that way. Criticism does not have to be destructive and the last thing said on the way out the door.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism and maybe we should open that door more widely to hear what we need to hear, then we can stop worrying about what might be said in our minds about us.

Again, reality seems to be just the right measure when dealing with problems and their solutions.

Betty Patnude

Indeed, I see this. I think what I'm trying to note is that you don't need to raise the rate up to the point where the waiting list disappears. There can be some virtue in having a group of people who express an interest in working with you beyond the number of places you maintain in your studio. When a space comes available, you can then be a little selective about who to call first rather than automatically taking the next person who calls (or alternatively being down one in numbers and in revenue). I suppose this is more valuable for teachers who get really aggravated by having to deal with students (and families) whose work ethic and/or general attitude run counter to their own. It would also benefit teachers who really dislike having to repeatedly confront (or negotiate with) students and families to keep them on the right path.

You're correct that charging a higher price may tend to diminish these potential pathologies anyway. But I would think they don't go away. How many times have I read here of teachers who are tired of wealthy and privileged families whose attitudes toward musical effort are less than ideal.

Morodiene, it's absolutely true. I don't expect my students to become professional pianists, and I've had both students and parents come back and thank me many many years after the fact, that I didn't give up on them or pushed them, as the case may have been. I expect many of them give their children piano lessons and who knows, because they've had that experience, they're better at parenting than their own parents were. It may take a generation or two for true fruition.

Ann,
My suggestion would be to think carefully about the wording, in policy and in person, of 'firing' students for lack of effort. Policies that are put into place in response to a particular student or issue may end up having an unintended effect later on.

For instance - If you say something along the lines of "needing to see a certain amount of improvement" (to avoid saying 'practice or I'll fire you' ) then what happens when you have a student who puts in a lot of effort for very little improvement? Obviously you don't seem like the sort of teacher who would get rid of a hard worker who just doesn't seem to be making much progress.

Being too detailed ie- "I require X amount of practice per day to remain in my studio" might not work either - if the student/parent claims they do practice that much (even when the results show that's not the case) then what is your recourse?

Perhaps wording along the lines of "to maintain their place in my studio, students are expected to make regular practice a daily priority, be engaged in and enthusiastic about playing the piano, and demonstrate steady, continued improvement." ? Something along these lines gets across the idea that once you start lessons you can coast...you have to work to maintain your place in the studio, just as you have to work to maintain your position as a starter in a sports team.

I would suggest just being upfront and truthful..."Sam just does not seem to practice. Without a desire to practice daily there is not much that I can do to teach him. If he does not want to practice then I think it would be best if he finds another teacher who might be able to motivate him or stops lessons altogether."

Well, I took a direct approach with a middle schooler (and parent)...about you decide how much progress you want to make this year etc. As it turns out they were not sure they wanted to continue. They had probably had a discussion and didn't know how to bring it up. Long story short this is the student's last month of lessons.

I've decided that it's difficult to see a student lose interest and quit, but it's worse to see them lose interest and stay. Anyway I let the boy know that I wouldn't be able to learn two instruments at once (he also takes viola lessons) and be in scouts etc...that it was reasonable not to spread yourself too thin etc.

Anyway it was a fairly easy conversation. And since I've been giving it all some thought, I was seeing the bright side...letting go means making space for an interested student.

The next unmotivated student did not show up...and no phone call. I figure they're going through conversations at home. Perhaps I'll call this evening and just address it all directly...instead of waiting to see if they call.

Well, I took a direct approach with a middle schooler (and parent)...about you decide how much progress you want to make this year etc. As it turns out they were not sure they wanted to continue. They had probably had a discussion and didn't know how to bring it up. Long story short: this is the student's last month of lessons.

I've decided that it's difficult to see a student lose interest and quit, but it's worse to see them lose interest and stay. Anyway I let the boy know that I wouldn't be able to learn two instruments at once (he also takes viola lessons) and be in scouts etc...that it was reasonable not to spread yourself too thin etc.

It was a fairly easy conversation. And since I've been giving it all some thought, I was seeing the bright side...letting go means making space for an interested student.

The next unmotivated student did not show up...and no phone call. I figure they're going through conversations at home. I plan call this evening and address it all directly...instead of waiting to see if they call.

I lost a student today. Way too many details to write about, but -

One of the issues (there were many) was that she was not practicing. She is beginning her third year of lessons, and has just begun level 1 of PA. She's smart, and plays well when she practices. If you heard her in recitals, you would think she was one of my better students - except you would think she'd just had a couple months of lessons.

I've made her a set of flashcards to use at home, issued ultimatums (that work for a week or two), spent long lessons doing practice instead of teaching new stuff...

Mom makes lots and lots of excuses for her own behavior and her daughter's. If I waived my fee and just charged her for every time she told me she was a single mom, I could retire now.

But this year I finally put a few things in writing in my policy. (She said she was hurt by them.) This is how I worded it: "I reserve the right to dismiss students from my studio who are consistently late or absent, disrespectful, or unresponsive to my efforts (ie. not practicing)."

This particular student is very respectful. That's one out of four! I actually kept her on because I feel sorry for her. She really is a sweetheart (except that I think she is learning to make excuses like her mother does.)

After two no-show lessons this week, and a bit of a scolding by me when they finally showed up in the middle of another student's lesson, the mom called tonight to let me know her daughter "would not be back." I think she thought she was firing me. I told her I thought that was a wonderful decision, that the situation was way too stressful for everyone involved. I wished her well, and sincerely hope she can find what she's looking for. (I've tried to get her to quit several times in the past. It is like talking to a brick wall.)

It has been a frustrating week for me, with several students not practicing or performing up to expectations. But most of these kids have up days and down days - like we all do. It only becomes a problem when it is week after week after week....

I'm glad the practice policy is in writing now.

I agree that a waiting list could indicate that rates are too low. It certainly could mean that a teacher could raise her/his rates.

One the other hand, I charge more then the going rate in our community. This week alone I have had three calls from potential students.

If the rates are low, it doesn’t cost the parents. If it is a financial investment, parents make sure the kids practice. When it costs, it is perceived as valuable and the parents will make sure the students are getting the most out of their investment. They will make their children practice. When I had my first big increase in rates, I found I had fewer students who did not practice enough

I have never let go of a student for not practicing but I have certainly seen my share of them. I live in a town of 25,000. A reputation for being a difficult Piano teacher would affect business. It is a fine line between having reasonable expectations and being flexible.

If a student is not practicing, I let the parents know that they will not progress. I want know misunderstanding that it is my teaching ability causing the problem.

I have a disclaimer for students who wish to participate in auditions or recitals. I send home a permission slip. It says “Yes___________will participate in the Spring Piano Festival. Enclosed please find a registration payment of $25.00. I understand that if my student does not adequately prepare for this event, he/she will not be allowed to participate. Participation is at the teachers discretion and no registration refunds will be given“

I make it clear to the students that if they don‘t practice, I will pull them from participating. I have done it.

Sorry about the typos. I didn't preview thnis one.

Hi Mrs. A. I took notes on your festival registration notice. Thanks for sharing this...very good at communicating expectations.

I'm also thinking over what you said...that when it's a financial investment parents make sure kids practice. I'm now back to my plan to increase rates again in June. I had decided against it when an older friend who I respect suggested to me that I'm charging enough. I have to keep in mind that someone in their 70's may also have a different concept about the value of a dollar, recalling what they paid for kids lessons 40 years ago.