Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
134 registered members (AnthonyPaulO, agraffe, 7uturu, astrotoy, AlphaBravoCharlie, Animisha, akc42, amad23, 37 invisible), 1,313 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: theJourney] #1263811
09/07/09 02:02 AM
09/07/09 02:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,919
UK.
C
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Chris H.  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,919
UK.
I have never seen it on a grade 7 (ABRSM) list. Both the Arabesques have recently appeared on grade 8 and Clair de Lune is more advanced than those. I played it (not very well) for my University audition.


Pianist and piano teacher.
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Chris H.] #1263824
09/07/09 03:14 AM
09/07/09 03:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 15
Canada
N
nanabush Offline
Junior Member
nanabush  Offline
Junior Member
N

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 15
Canada
There's a bunch of stuff that seems "easy" just because of the tempo. Try playing Claire de Lune convincingly for an examiner. It's probably easier to polish than a lot of the List D stuff for grade 10, but if you look at the Debussy stuff for Grade 9 (Fille au Cheveux de Lin, Canope) in the same style, the latter pieces are definitely a level below in terms of difficulty.

Debussy's slower stuff is overflowing with little expressive bits; someone doing Grade 8 or even 9 may not be able to properly convey the mood.

I'd rather hear someone play the piece well prepared regardless of if it's too easy for them, than someone who isn't quite at that level play it half-decent.

I did Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum for my Grade 10 - now that's a straightforward technical piece that probably doesn't have as many interpretive issues as Claire de Lune.


-----
And that BCC Syllabus is loaded with mistakes. The Passepied AND Claire de Lune belong in the Suite Bergamasque. It's pretty much the same as the RCM Grade 10, just some title errors.

For the ARCT in the syllabus, the new edition, they put L'Isle Joyeuse under Image BK2. It's clear that the piece belongs in ARCT, it's just a careless mistake as to where they classified it.

Last edited by nanabush; 09/07/09 03:19 AM.
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Theowne] #1263836
09/07/09 04:06 AM
09/07/09 04:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Oregon, USA
C
Clayton Offline
Full Member
Clayton  Offline
Full Member
C

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 128
Oregon, USA
Originally Posted by Theowne
By the way, while the opening may be slow, the middle section moves at a brisker pace and does actually contain some awkward moments for fingering.

"La Fille aux Cheveux de Lin" is grade 9 by RCM standards as well. Technically someone of grade 5 or above would probably be able to hammer out all the right notes, but I think the RCM is trying to say that the interpretative demands of this pieces are not suited until a certain level of proficiency is attained.


The fingering and phrasing is non-trivial, despite the slow tempo.

Clayton -


My listening obsessions:
Kurt Atterberg - Piano Concerto in Bb
Claude Debussy - Cello Sonata
Johannes Brahms - Intermezzo Op. 118 No. 2
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Clayton] #1263844
09/07/09 04:33 AM
09/07/09 04:33 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
The counting's always so poor. Count 9 a bar with the score and listen to this appallingness:

Dave, that's bang out of order!

Now Stokowski's nearly got it:





snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: debrucey] #1263848
09/07/09 04:45 AM
09/07/09 04:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,919
UK.
C
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Chris H.  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,919
UK.
Originally Posted by bruce-san
Who said Claire de Lune was easy?


Although nobody has actually said it's easy the thread 'Clair de Lune from scratch' certainly implies it. Hugh states that the lessons are aimed at the beginning pianist. The title implies that you are going to learn how to play this piece by following the lessons even if you have no previous knowledge or experience.

The only other person I know who advises people to choose pieces which are too difficult and try to learn them measure by measure is Gyro and everyone makes fun of him.

I would imagine that most people are realistic and know that it will take them a long time to reach this standard but what about those who don't appreciate this? Is there a chance that they could be put off when in fact they can't play Clair de Lune after watching the videos? Might they think (as many adults seem to) that there must be something wrong with them?


Pianist and piano teacher.
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Chris H.] #1263881
09/07/09 06:52 AM
09/07/09 06:52 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,754
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,754
New York City
IMO Debussy is no more difficult(or easier)interpretively than any great composer. Some posters may have played fewer pieces by him than other compsers and so be unfamiliar with his style.

One person's easy can be another's very difficult so what people "say" is not very meaningful here. As far as the classification to grade 10(if correct) goes, it seem tojust mean that the classification system is meant for students up to a certain level of playing. One cannot assume grade 10 means the hardest pieces in the piano literature.

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Chris H.] #1263887
09/07/09 07:11 AM
09/07/09 07:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
T
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
I don't know if it was on a recent syllabus or just in one of their "Grade 7 bundle" books.

ABRSM also does tend to also move pieces between grades from time tom time (presumably changing only the expected standard to which it will be played).

I believe the conclusion amongst teachers on the abrsm forum was that it would be between grade 7 and grade 8. If a student had played a variety of Grade 7 pieces and passed grade 7 -- perhaps having done Little Shephard, I see no reason why they would not be able to tackle this piece and play it to a high standard.


Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: currawong] #1263945
09/07/09 10:49 AM
09/07/09 10:49 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,270
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,270
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by currawong
Originally Posted by eggsdeee
Why is Clair de lune listed under Preludes, Book 2 rather than Suite Bergamasque on the syllabus?...
It probably means La terrasse des audiences au clair de lune, the seventh prelude in book 2?
Which would mean that Clair de lune (from Suite Bergamasque) is actually not on the G10 syllabus at all. So to the OP, if you're thinking of entering a student for G10, you need to contact RCM and check this.


Just a small point of clarification :

The link provided to the erroneous listing was to the BCCM (British Columbia Conservatory of Music (Vancouver)), not to the RCM (Toronto).

In the RCM Piano Syllabus, Clair de Lune is listed, along with the other three pieces from Suite Bergamasque as Grade 10 examination pieces.

The BCCM - for what this second-hand information is worth - was started by a disgruntled former RCM member (examiner? faculty? I don't know), dismissed from the RCM for unprofessionalism. The BCCM Piano Syllabus almost copies the RCM (Toronto) Piano Syllabus, except for this error.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: BruceD] #1263953
09/07/09 11:02 AM
09/07/09 11:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 28
Toronto, ON, Canada
T
TonyY Offline OP
Full Member
TonyY  Offline OP
Full Member
T

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 28
Toronto, ON, Canada
Originally Posted by Theowne
By the way, while the opening may be slow, the middle section moves at a brisker pace and does actually contain some awkward moments for fingering.

"La Fille aux Cheveux de Lin" is grade 9 by RCM standards as well. Technically someone of grade 5 or above would probably be able to hammer out all the right notes, but I think the RCM is trying to say that the interpretative demands of this pieces are not suited until a certain level of proficiency is attained.


Very true, I *almost did La fille de Cheveux de Lin for my grade 9, but decided not to, I was a little uncertain about my interpretation.

Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by currawong
Originally Posted by eggsdeee
Why is Clair de lune listed under Preludes, Book 2 rather than Suite Bergamasque on the syllabus?...
It probably means La terrasse des audiences au clair de lune, the seventh prelude in book 2?
Which would mean that Clair de lune (from Suite Bergamasque) is actually not on the G10 syllabus at all. So to the OP, if you're thinking of entering a student for G10, you need to contact RCM and check this.


Just a small point of clarification :

The link provided to the erroneous listing was to the BCCM (British Columbia Conservatory of Music (Vancouver)), not to the RCM (Toronto).

In the RCM Piano Syllabus, Clair de Lune is listed, along with the other three pieces from Suite Bergamasque as Grade 10 examination pieces.

The BCCM - for what this second-hand information is worth - was started by a disgruntled former RCM member (examiner? faculty? I don't know), dismissed from the RCM for unprofessionalism. The BCCM Piano Syllabus almost copies the RCM (Toronto) Piano Syllabus, except for this error.

Regards,


Thanks Bruce, I didn't have the syllabus with me.


Pianist/Piano Teacher
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #1263954
09/07/09 11:04 AM
09/07/09 11:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,723
not somewhere over the rainbow
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Pogorelich.  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,723
not somewhere over the rainbow
No, you're right, it's like playing the Goldberg.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: pianoloverus] #1263993
09/07/09 11:56 AM
09/07/09 11:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I[...]

One person's easy can be another's very difficult so what people "say" is not very meaningful here. [...]

Plagiarism adds a nice touch, doesn't it? laugh

Last edited by Horowitzian; 09/07/09 12:59 PM. Reason: Added link....

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Horowitzian] #1264018
09/07/09 12:36 PM
09/07/09 12:36 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,754
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,754
New York City
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I[...]

One person's easy can be another's very difficult so what people "say" is not very meaningful here. [...]

Plagiarism adds a nice touch, doesn't it? laugh


The idea you call "plagiarism" and then sarcastically post a smiley next to has been expressed countless times at PW, sometimes appropriately and other times IMO inappropriately. It's like saying "the earth isn't flat" is plagiarizing.

Are you still whining because I said I thought the idea was inappropriate in some post you made some days or weeks ago? As I recall, you admitted it was just that you found the poster's question taxing on your patience or something like that.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 09/07/09 12:39 PM.
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: pianoloverus] #1264030
09/07/09 01:01 PM
09/07/09 01:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
You did virtually copy what I said....

Last edited by Horowitzian; 09/07/09 01:04 PM.

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Horowitzian] #1264038
09/07/09 01:11 PM
09/07/09 01:11 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,270
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,270
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
You did virtually copy what I said....


My take on this is that the observation made by both of you amounts to a common "truism" of such universal currency that I think it highly unlikely that there is either copying or plagiarism involved.


Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: BruceD] #1264052
09/07/09 01:25 PM
09/07/09 01:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
T
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
The earth isn't flat????
OMG!!!

I suppose now you are going to tell me that I can't control the tone of the piano because of "physics"?

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: BruceD] #1264053
09/07/09 01:26 PM
09/07/09 01:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
S
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member
sotto voce  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Who gets to decide when a common observation "expressed countless times" is appropriately or inappropriately made?

Steven

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Horowitzian] #1264056
09/07/09 01:29 PM
09/07/09 01:29 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,754
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,754
New York City
Originally Posted by Horowitzian
You did virtually copy what I said....


I have no idea of the words you used. It's beyond silly to use the word "plagiarism" here. Even if you were the first person on the planet to express this truism, wouldn't someone be allowed to express it also?

Perhaps PW should run all new posts through "Turn it in.com" or whatever the name of the site teachers use to check and see if a student's paper is a cut and paste job.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 09/07/09 01:32 PM.
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: pianoloverus] #1264086
09/07/09 02:25 PM
09/07/09 02:25 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 294
Hacienda Heights, CA
Philip Lu Offline
Full Member
Philip Lu  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 294
Hacienda Heights, CA
sorry, kbk, I don't agree with your notion of counting.


"Nie Dam Sie!"
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: theJourney] #1264111
09/07/09 03:25 PM
09/07/09 03:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Originally Posted by theJourney
The earth isn't flat????
OMG!!!

I suppose now you are going to tell me that I can't control the tone of the piano because of "physics"?


grin grin grin grin


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: theJourney] #1264118
09/07/09 03:38 PM
09/07/09 03:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,656
D
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,656
Originally Posted by theJourney

I suppose now you are going to tell me that I can't control the tone of the piano because of "physics"?

Of course you can! A good piano tech can alter the felt on your hammers to a variety of tones. Also, you can record yourself and the purchase a graphic or parametric EQ to alter the tone. laugh

Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha PF-1000
by Gavin24985. 03/19/19 09:09 AM
Happy Birthday Lennie Tristano!
by Dfrankjazz. 03/19/19 05:09 AM
“Spring Time” - A beautiful song
by Vũ Trần. 03/19/19 05:08 AM
Piano action issue
by kokatla. 03/19/19 04:31 AM
Practice session of Chopin prelude 3
by baudelairepianist. 03/19/19 12:26 AM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics190,989
Posts2,808,087
Members92,812
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2