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Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
keystring #1210185 06/02/09 07:06 AM
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Quote

Kreisler: As for the first point, you're correct, leading tones do usually go up to the tonic, but this is one of those cases where it's common enough in the literature to be considered allowable.

Harmosis: Right. The rule here is that if the leading tone is in an inner voice (alto or tenor), then it can go to the 5th of the tonic chord instead of the root. This is done to make a complete chord instead of leaving the 5th out as I did. But, if you're going to do this, then it must make sense melodically as it does in Kreisler's tenor.

That is important to know. I felt I might be in danger of applying the rule too rigidly and trapping myself. I even felt that might be so. I can hear in what manner Kreisler's version makes sense. K: your "common enough in literature" points me again toward studying that literature.

Quote
As for the 2nd point, that line bugs me, too, but ...

Since it's not my imagination, I'll extend my query further. Until recently my world was 90% m.d. solfege and that's how I hear music the most. For minor keys the tonic was "la". That snippet in degrees goes "^2 ^4 ^2 ^5" which in solfege I hear as "ti re ti mi". "Ti" is attracted to "do" and in minor keys I seem to hear the supertonic pulling to the mediant as though ^2 was a weaker tendency tone toward the ^4. Might that exist? If I imagine the same ^2 ^4 ^2 ^5 in a major scale (re fa re so) then it does not feel as "off".

My question is whether what I am sensing has some kind of merit or basis? I'm trying to check my musical realities.


[Linked Image]

Last edited by keystring; 06/02/09 08:11 AM.
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Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
keystring #1210264 06/02/09 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by keystring
Wouldn't I have to learn how to use 2nd inversion? When 1st inversion was introduced I didn't just start to willy nilly stick in inverted chords: I learned a fair bit about them. Would that also be true for 2nd inversion?


Well, you don't need 2nd inversion chords to complete the exercise, but when you do learn them, yes, you should definitely learn how they're used.

Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
Harmosis #1210291 06/02/09 12:18 PM
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Then as long as I'm with that book I should follow its restrictions and put in the 2nd inversion chords when I get there. In the meantime there is nothing wrong with seeing what the experts come up with.

Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
keystring #1210295 06/02/09 12:26 PM
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Restrictions are nice because they force you to really consider all the options and look for creative and alternate solutions.

Many theory texts begin with root-position-only and no-sevenths and other limitations. It makes things a bit frustrating in the beginning, but once you hit seventh chords, 43 and 42 inversions, the handling of 64 chords, the addition of non-harmonic tones, and chromatic harmony, you'll be happy you got all the basics out of the way. laugh


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
Kreisler #1210311 06/02/09 12:52 PM
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That's sort of how I hoped to see it.
What about my question re: copyright and posting some of the questions copied from the book? Edition is 1948, USA, and it is sold in stores presently.

Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
keystring #1210374 06/02/09 02:41 PM
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That could be a problem since it's still under copyright.

I'll do some digging and see if I can come up with something that's not under copyright...


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
Kreisler #1210375 06/02/09 02:44 PM
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Well, I could post the assignments I've done. Since they were done before getting any corrections (the first one I posted was #e) there will be mistakes, but that would be fine, would it not?

Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
keystring #1210434 06/02/09 04:24 PM
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Some of the exercises are so general or vague that the idea of someone complaining about copyright is pretty unlikely. For instance this last exercise is just 16 notes, total, with instructions to complete with figured bass plus limitations as to what chords you can use.

(But it pays to be careful…)

But there are people here who could make up similar exercises and would have excellent "answers". It seems to me that both Kreisler and Harmosis, just to name two people, are capable of not only of doing as well as your book but perhaps better, and partially because they don't have to worry about writing a "book" designed for the masses.

I love this topic because it allows me also to check my own solutions against people who know more than I do. smile

(For instance, I completed the same exercise, and it was essentially correct, but I rejected my own idea because of incorrectly thinking that parallel 4ths were not allowed and so completed the exercise only by going outside the rules (using 7 chords and 2nd inversions. I agree with others who say that IF these exercises can be completed with limitations, it's an excellent mental discipline.)

Last edited by Gary D.; 06/02/09 04:38 PM.
Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
Gary D. #1210593 06/02/09 08:23 PM
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How about this, the San Francisco Conservatory has a number of harmony exercises online. I'll start a new post...


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
Kreisler #1210607 06/02/09 08:53 PM
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Kreisler, are there any resources for the "how's" of at least the simpler things? I saw "sequencing" - Horwood touched on it in about 3 lines and that was it.

Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
Kreisler #1210613 06/02/09 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kreisler
How about this, the San Francisco Conservatory has a number of harmony exercises online. I'll start a new post...

I think that's a great idea.

The advantage of working with some kind of exercise here and then discussing it is that you have the opportunity of seeing mulitple solutions. smile

Last edited by Gary D.; 06/02/09 09:01 PM.
Re: Is it right? (harmony theory)
keystring #1264104 09/07/09 03:02 PM
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I've gone back to it and tried the last one in that chapter. Again, the melody was given. How is it? [Linked Image]
By the way, I just got the first harmony book by Sarnecki and find it very clear and helpful.

Last edited by keystring; 09/07/09 03:04 PM.
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