Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
95 registered members (agraffe, ArtlessArt, adamjh, AlanB, amad23, 25 invisible), 1,883 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#1262654 - 09/04/09 10:07 PM What a dealer said about European pianos today...  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 842
saerra Offline
500 Post Club Member
saerra  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 842
Atlanta, GA
I think this is a load of baloney, but I want to be sure my instincts and research are correct wink

I was at a piano store today. Salesman was pushing very hard for me to at least put a "hold" on a piano, even after I told him I was not buying today and still doing my "due diligence".

He asked, "what else are you looking at?"

Me: The upright Schimmel! smile

Him: Oh no! Don't do that to yourself! Schimmel is a great brand, but just so you know... all pianos imported from Europe have to pay a HUGE import tax, that makes them MUCH more expensive. Then, when you resell, you can't get any of that back... so they drop like 50% right away.

He then shows me something on his computer that shows a Bosendorfer with a price of like $30-$40k (no clue what this was of course). And tells me, the original new price was >$100k, but "we can't sell it for that, because it's lost so much of it's value!"

*Everything* I've read speaks pretty highly of the European pianos, including Schimmel. Also, I've been reading about piano depreciation and how to figure out the value of a used piano... nowhere did it say "oh, use this extra horrible depreciation scale for European pianos."

In fact... I think it said, "fine pianos may keep thier value longer than others..."

I'm not crazy right? I hate having to deal with this stuff. And, I'm bad at in real time, I generally just smile and nod politely, wondering when I'll be able to escape!

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1262661 - 09/04/09 10:27 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: saerra]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,815
Piano*Dad Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Piano*Dad  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,815
Williamsburg, VA
The import duty on both upright pianos and grand pianos is a whopping 4.7%. The dealer is full of excrement.

Like many large ticket items, pianos lose some market value upon sale. This is not something that afflicts European pianos more than others.

#1262665 - 09/04/09 10:36 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Piano*Dad]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 842
saerra Offline
500 Post Club Member
saerra  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 842
Atlanta, GA
Thank you Piano-Dad!

I hate this kind of stuff. I don't know why some dealers don't realize that outright lying to your potential customers drives them away. frown

Thanks for the sanity check!!! smile

#1262666 - 09/04/09 10:37 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Piano*Dad]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Seneca Offline
Full Member
Seneca  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Portland, OR
You have been the victim of an episode of FUD salesmanship. FUD= fear, uncertainty and doubt. It is, unfortunately, endemic, and not just in piano showrooms.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1262669 - 09/04/09 10:41 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: saerra]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
AJF  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
Toronto
Saerra,

The dealer was obviously treating you as though you are stupid. And you most likely won't go back there. Who's stupid now?
The more educated we make ourselves the less that sort of excrement (as pianodad so eloquently put it:)will fly.

Continued luck in your hunt.

Last edited by AJF; 09/04/09 10:41 PM.


Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#1262674 - 09/04/09 10:52 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: AJF]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,815
Piano*Dad Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Piano*Dad  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,815
Williamsburg, VA
Although I am a trade economist by training, I didn't know the exact tariff on pianos offhand. But any idiot with google can find it.

US Tariff code on Musical Instruments

A dealer who casually lies to people is banking on some percentage of the 'marks' not doing their homework. It's despicable, of course, but I guess many people have internalized a disregard for basic ethics so thoroughly that their sleep is completely unaffected by their behavior.

Unfortunately, there is very little to do unless you wish to name names, which you should not do because you have no proof except for your own personal experience.

What did they sell, BTW, that was worth using outright deception to steer you away from European pianos?


#1262688 - 09/04/09 11:06 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Piano*Dad]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
The import duty on both upright pianos and grand pianos is a whopping 4.7%. The dealer is full of excrement.

Like many large ticket items, pianos lose some market value upon sale. This is not something that afflicts European pianos more than others.


Strong words from Dad! BTW, what's that pungent smell? grin

saerra,

There is the percentage of depreciation and then there is the dollar depreciation. Obviously, if you buy a Perzina vertical for 6k and five years later suffer 50% depreciation upon resale, you will have lost 3k in nominal dollars. If you buy a modest Schimmel C120 in PE finish, pay the MSRP of over $20k, and five years later suffer 40% depreciation on resale, you will have lost 8k in nominal dollars. Of course you won't pay the full MSRP, but you might pay more of it than you have to because the spread between MSRP on the European pianos and the street prices to shoppers who inform themselves and negotiate is very big. Anyone who prizes a new European vertical in the US and who values money should shop very very carefully. The best way to minimize depreciation on such a piano is to bargain hard. This piano category (new European verticals) is the most sluggish segment of a generally sluggish market.

Let's play devil's advocate and say that the dealer is right. Would it not follow that a recent manufacture low-mileage European vertical would be a whale of a deal because it's lost so much of its value? So you could check out asking prices on recent Schimmel verticals to get a sense of the actual market. If the dealer is right and you find one that you like, it could be a good opportunity for you.

My own advice to you is that if you worry about retention of value because you anticipate selling in the future, you should buy the cheapest piano that you find satisfactory since the actual dollar loss will invariably be lower. If you don't want a cheap piano, then buy a U1 or a U3. They hold their value better than any other vertical pianos. If neither of those alternatives is attractive, scour the used market for European verticals and be patient.



Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#1262715 - 09/05/09 12:01 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: turandot]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,930
88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
1000 Post Club Member
88Key_PianoPlayer  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,930
El Cajon, CA
IMO, if I was a dealer, I would require my salespeople to be completely open and honest, or the piano of the customer's choice (even if it happens to be one of the most expensive concert grands that the store has) is free to the customer (including delivery, first 6 months of service, and (if applicable) hauling away their old piano), paid for by the dishonest salesperson. grin Making the salesperson gift the customer the piano would, at least for the first several offenses, be in lieu of termination. (Chances are, especially if the salesperson had to buy a customer a $200k Bosendorfer Imperial, s/he wouldn't do that more than once, and hopefully if s/he knew the consequences ahead of time (btw if the salesperson didn't know, I'd cut some slack), wouldn't be dishonest at all.)


Associate Member - Piano Technicians Guild
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
You can right-click my avatar for an option to view a larger version.
#1262737 - 09/05/09 01:04 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: 88Key_PianoPlayer]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 646
Glenn Treibitz Offline
500 Post Club Member
Glenn Treibitz  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 646
Los Angeles/Burbank
My advice is to buy the piano you prefer. This is a long term investment and most people never sell their piano. So buy the piano you like and can afford. If that's the Schimmel, great. It's a lovely piano.


Glenn Treibitz

Hollywood Piano Co. - Est.1928
http://www.hollywoodpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/HollywoodPiano

1800 MY-PIANO

Grotrian, Mason&Hamlin, Estonia,Schulze Pollmann,Albert Weber,Baldwin,Brodmann,
Ritmuller,Weber,Hardman,Roland,Casio,Used Steinway,Yamaha,Kawai
#1262836 - 09/05/09 08:44 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Glenn Treibitz]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 89
Collyermum Offline
Full Member
Collyermum  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 89
Durham UK
Only other issue is of course that buying a European piano in the US means you have two different added variables to contend with compared to us Europeans buying one:

Cost of transport to the US is greater than to Europe if they are originally made in Europe
Dollar to Euro rate may make them less attractive to US buyers compared to either pound to Euro, or European buyers who can pay in Euros etc.

I researched the prices of Irmlers in US for example and the list prices in the US are higher than those in the UK. Now that may be because US dealers expect to do far more negotiating than those in the UK of course, but I am sure there is an element of the above as well, historically European products are cheaper in Europe than in the US, and Chinese and US products are cheaper for you in the US than they are here for us in Europe (electricals for example).

No doubt there will be someone more knowledgeable than me that can shed more light on this.


Irmler grand 5'3"
Grade 8 flute and voice, working on Grade 7 piano and beginner on the lever harp!
#1262917 - 09/05/09 12:34 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Collyermum]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member
scepticalforumguy  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,476
Lower Mainland, BC
I believe the only pianos in North America that can avoid import taxes are NY Steinways and Charles Walters. There may be actually one or two other small operations such as Fandrich and Sons that qualify as American made as well, and I highly doubt the smaller operators would say something against European instruments. Or am I missing something?


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


#1262919 - 09/05/09 12:35 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Collyermum]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
Toman Offline
Full Member
Toman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
European cars tend to be considerably less expensive in the US than they are in Europe - even with current exchange rates.

Transport costs across the Atlantic are surprisingly inexpensive, and while I can't speak from personal experience regarding the historical cost of European pianos in the US, it would seem that any differential would be primarily the fault of fluctuating exchange rates.

The Economist most recently estimated in July 2009, using their highly scientific Big Max Index, that the Euro is "overvalued" against the dollar by about 30%. The Euro's exchange rate value has continued to rise since then, putting even further pressure on Euro area manufacturers.

Not all of the exchange rate difference is passed along, however. Because European piano manufacturers must compete in the American market with Japanese and Chinese manufacturers (both of who's currencies are "undervalued" against the USD by PPP) - not to mention American manufacturers themselves. European piano makers are likely forced to dig into their own profit margin to stay competitive in the US. At least, that it what happens with European vehicles.

On the other hand, the Eur-USD PPP gap has been with us for several years now, indeed almost a decade, so perhaps the Euro area manufacturers have been forced to bring their US prices into line with true exchange rates.

Of course, we can definitively answer this by simply comparing street prices of European pianos in the US vs. Euro area. My guess is that they'll cost about 15% more in the US after accounting for the ~5% import duty.

Here is The Economist's most recent "Big Mac Index," which they use to create a "fly by the seat of your pants" relative PPP index.

http://www.economist.com/businessfinance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14036918

Last edited by Toman; 09/05/09 12:42 PM.
#1262939 - 09/05/09 01:07 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Toman]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 323
birchy Offline
Full Member
birchy  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 323
Vancouver
Originally Posted by Toman
European cars tend to be considerably less expensive in the US than they are in Europe - even with current exchange rates.


My understanding is that a very significant percentage of the cost of purchasing a new vehicle in Europe is taxes.

For example: On cars from 0 to 1400cc, VRT is charged at 22.5% of the OMSP. So let's imagine a carmaker imports a car and wants €9,000 for it. The revenue commissioner will add 21% VAT to that, bringing it to €10,890. In order to register it so you can tax it and make it legal to drive, the buyer has to pay another 22.5% on top of the €10,890, bringing the price to a grand total of €13,340. So that’s almost €4,500 paid in tax on a small car excluding any delivery or additional charges.

Source: http://www.motornet.ie/content/templates/template_tax.asp?articleid=2963&zoneid=68

Further, the US dollar is not likely to rise against other currencies (in my opinion) while its citizens continue to have relatively low personal tax rates while the money supply grows at rather astonishing rates.

#1262946 - 09/05/09 01:15 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: birchy]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,771
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,771
San Jose, CA
"Here is The Economist's most recent "Big Mac Index," which they use to create a "fly by the seat of your pants" relative PPP index.

http://www.economist.com/businessfinance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14036918 "


Thanks, Toman. This brings currency valuations to the range of something I can grasp. Talk about "eating the difference..."


Clef

#1262971 - 09/05/09 02:11 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Jeff Clef]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
Toman Offline
Full Member
Toman  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
birchy,

You're absolutely correct about the European taxes on vehicles. Add in the fact that Europeans typically announce taxes on the sticker price, whilst Americans view sales taxes only after the sale, and you can account for even more of the discrepancy.

However, personal income taxes in the US are not low in coastal populous locales such as CA, NY, MA, and the like; they are at or over 50% for many.

Last edited by Toman; 09/05/09 02:20 PM.
#1263041 - 09/05/09 03:54 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Collyermum]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,011
master88er Offline
1000 Post Club Member
master88er  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,011
San Francisco Bay Area
Having imported pianos from Europe for more than 30 years, we assess (add) 6% to the wholesale cost to establish our wholesale. This percentage is an amount sufficient to include duty AND freight to the nearest airport. Generally, Tier 1 pianos are flown in - this may sound expensive but on average its about $1,000 in air freight for a 6' grand. This is a minor cost compared to the actual cost of most of the instruments, and it is much easier on the piano than a nice cruise (since they don't use the midnight buffet). In some cases, the cost and the hardship on the piano is LESS than trucking a piano from New York to Seattle in the dead of winter.




Russell I. Kassman
R.KASSMAN, Purveyor of Fine Pianos
Berkeley, CA

FORMER US Rep.for C.Bechstein

SF Area Dealer: Steingraeber•Grotrian•Sauter•Estonia•Kayserburg•Baldwin•Brodmann•Ritmüller
www.rkassman.com
russell@rkassman.com
510.558.0765
#1263185 - 09/05/09 08:59 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: master88er]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 842
saerra Offline
500 Post Club Member
saerra  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 842
Atlanta, GA
smile I guess we can thoroughly label this one "Busted". I knew it didn't make sense! smile smile smile

You guys are great, thanks! And, as I said in the other thread, I ended up buying the Schimmel today!

Oh, and in a great turn of irony, he sent me a follow up email today. He mentions to me, "Although you were given a great price on that Schimmel upright (whatever the reason for the tremendous discount)..."

Really? "Great price" and "tremendous discount"? Because last night he seemed to imply I was being ripped off, the price was way too high, and it would lose all value as soon as I got it home.

Funny!

Though honestly, I'm glad the "shopping" part is done, and I can get back to the fun part, PLAYING!

smile saerra

#1263325 - 09/06/09 06:54 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: saerra]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,582
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,582
Philadelphia/South Jersey
saerra,

Congratulations! Tell Don Bennett I said Hi!


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
#1263507 - 09/06/09 02:05 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member
ProdigalPianist  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,049
Phoenix Metro, AZ
Just by coincidence, we were looking at Schimmel's at a local dealer yesterday. They are a Yamaha dealer and have 2 used Schimmel grands, so on a lark we went to see them.

My husband looked at the smaller of the 2 and said, "what's that control box?" As I was just walking up and hadn't seen it yet, I replied, "Probably either a Damp Chaser or a player system." Salesman overheard this and said, "you will never see a Damp Chaser on one of our pianos, we'd rip it off before we put it on the floor." Then went off on a diatribe about how awful DCs were. (rolls eyes)

Well, while they may rip DCs off, they don't fix pedals (soft pedal causes all notes on the left hand side of the keyboard to play minor seconds; middle pedal doesn't work at all), or tune or EVEN DUST THE KEYBOARDS of trade-ins they only keep around to show how 'awful' other brands are.

When they saw me looking at the Schimmels the immediate response was, "can you live with the soundboard cracks?? Because European pianos are not made for the U.S. climate. Their soundboards will all crack." Pointed out the huge visible soundboard crack of the smaller Schimmel, which was only about 13 years old, as "proof".

I don't think he liked me anyway. I suspect he much prefers customers who have NOT done any homework. At the beginning of his DC diatribe he asked smugly, "Do you know what's wrong with Damp Chasers??" (expecting me to be impressed by his knowledge).

"They keep the soundboard at a different humidity than the rest of the piano?" I deadpanned back. He didn't know how to respond. Shortly thereafter he dumped me to go talk to a couple of non-pianists who wanted to buy a digital "grand" for their church. He told them digitals were much preferred because you could turn the power off to the sanctuary and not worry about the piano.


Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.
#1263516 - 09/06/09 02:28 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: ProdigalPianist]  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member
theJourney  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,946
Banned
Originally Posted by ProdigalPianist
Shortly thereafter he dumped me to go talk to a couple of non-pianists who wanted to buy a digital "grand" for their church. He told them digitals were much preferred because you could turn the power off to the sanctuary and not worry about the piano.


And presumably a lot quieter if the power is off...

#1263539 - 09/06/09 03:23 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: ProdigalPianist]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Originally Posted by ProdigalPianist
Just by coincidence, we were looking at Schimmel's at a local dealer yesterday. They are a Yamaha dealer and have 2 used Schimmel grands, so on a lark we went to see them.

My husband looked at the smaller of the 2 and said, "what's that control box?" As I was just walking up and hadn't seen it yet, I replied, "Probably either a Damp Chaser or a player system." Salesman overheard this and said, "you will never see a Damp Chaser on one of our pianos, we'd rip it off before we put it on the floor." Then went off on a diatribe about how awful DCs were. (rolls eyes)

Well, while they may rip DCs off, they don't fix pedals (soft pedal causes all notes on the left hand side of the keyboard to play minor seconds; middle pedal doesn't work at all), or tune or EVEN DUST THE KEYBOARDS of trade-ins they only keep around to show how 'awful' other brands are.

When they saw me looking at the Schimmels the immediate response was, "can you live with the soundboard cracks?? Because European pianos are not made for the U.S. climate. Their soundboards will all crack." Pointed out the huge visible soundboard crack of the smaller Schimmel, which was only about 13 years old, as "proof".

I don't think he liked me anyway. I suspect he much prefers customers who have NOT done any homework. At the beginning of his DC diatribe he asked smugly, "Do you know what's wrong with Damp Chasers??" (expecting me to be impressed by his knowledge).

"They keep the soundboard at a different humidity than the rest of the piano?" I deadpanned back. He didn't know how to respond. Shortly thereafter he dumped me to go talk to a couple of non-pianists who wanted to buy a digital "grand" for their church. He told them digitals were much preferred because you could turn the power off to the sanctuary and not worry about the piano.


I think I would have said "Good day" after the first diatribe. Dealers like that are not worth the gasoline it takes to drive to their stores.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
#1263663 - 09/06/09 08:01 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Horowitzian]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 158
pilgrimjoel Offline
Full Member
pilgrimjoel  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 158
Michigan
This salesman was clearly a schmuck, but there is a point to be made here. Don't buy a European upright for the resale value. They could easily lose as much as 50% of their value because there is so little market for them in the U.S. If you find one that you love and plan to keep, then it doesn't matter. If you think you may one day want a grand, then buy cheaper and save up. We're trying to make sense of this right now ourselves.

#1277691 - 09/30/09 12:30 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: saerra]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 124
John Chan Offline
Full Member
John Chan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by saerra
He then shows me something on his computer that shows a Bosendorfer with a price of like $30-$40k (no clue what this was of course). And tells me, the original new price was >$100k, but "we can't sell it for that, because it's lost so much of it's value!"

I would gladly take his worthless Bosie off him for $50K.

#1277695 - 09/30/09 01:05 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: ProdigalPianist]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 153
Fun Offline
Full Member
Fun  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 153
Phoenix, Arizona
I knew the salesman that ProdigalPianist talked about. He told me Estonia piano is the worst of the worst, and in the NAMM show, nobody give a &*$# about them. Bosie has no horse power, and is built the same way it was built hundred years ago with no improvements. And Schimmel will not get out of the re-org ...... Fun stuffs!


Estonia L190 in Pyramid Mahogany, Petrof 125F in Ebony Polished
Dark Love
#1278082 - 09/30/09 04:13 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Fun]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Marty Flinn  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
One can only hope that in this frightful economy, the offending salesperson won't last long.

European pianos are wonderful and offer a decidedly different tonal response to the Asian and American catagories. Within their own catagory they can range from bombastic to sweet and lyrical.



Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.
#1278366 - 10/01/09 02:42 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Fun]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 124
John Chan Offline
Full Member
John Chan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by Fun
I knew the salesman that ProdigalPianist talked about. He told me Estonia piano is the worst of the worst, and in the NAMM show, nobody give a &*$# about them. Bosie has no horse power, and is built the same way it was built hundred years ago with no improvements. And Schimmel will not get out of the re-org ...... Fun stuffs!


Funny, that's exactly what people say about GM cars.

#1278495 - 10/01/09 09:41 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: John Chan]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
Terry5758 Offline
Full Member
Terry5758  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
Vero Beach,Florida
saerra,
I'm glad you didn't buy a piano from that jerk. Congrats on the new piano.Good choice. I must have missed your thread announcing it's purchase. Anyhow,good luck and please post pictures.


Terry


Proud owner of a fully restored Feurich concert grand built in 1912 with Phoenix System.
Gotta love that German technology
#1278540 - 10/01/09 10:28 AM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Terry5758]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,771
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,771
San Jose, CA
She put up some nice photos, Terry. Some are on this forum and some are on ABF.


Clef

#1278768 - 10/01/09 04:02 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Jeff Clef]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
Terry5758 Offline
Full Member
Terry5758  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
Vero Beach,Florida
Thanks Jeff,I will search for them.



Terry


Proud owner of a fully restored Feurich concert grand built in 1912 with Phoenix System.
Gotta love that German technology
#1278790 - 10/01/09 04:31 PM Re: What a dealer said about European pianos today... [Re: Terry5758]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 842
saerra Offline
500 Post Club Member
saerra  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 842
Atlanta, GA
Hi Terry,

They're actually right here (you'll have to follow the embedded links - sorry about that!): Saerra's Piano Pics

And, you can see the curtains I put up around the piano to try to soften the sound, and decorate the bare walls, here:
Piano Curtains!

smile Thanks for asking.

re: The dealer. He had sent me a followup email. I thought about ignoring it, but I'm a polite person, and figured I'd send a brief reply and let him know that I'd bought a piano and was done (so no need to follow up anymore wink )

A couple days after that... I got a weird message from him, saying that he wasn't sure if he should tell me, but b/c of everything going on with Schimmel, if I had waited 45 more days, I probably could have gotten a MUCH cheaper price on the piano.

What the heck? I mean, I can not think of a single good reason somebody would say this to me. The piano was already bought and paid for, so this is irrelevant, and can obviously only lead to bad feelings.

I really try to give people the benefit of the doubt... but I can't think of any positive motivation for this at all.

Very strange to me... but yeah, won't be back there again!

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Brian Crain - Song for Sienna
by TonyDIGITAL. 06/25/17 09:59 AM
Gaveau Upright 1928-29
by Petrol. 06/24/17 10:34 PM
Grotrian Steinweg Model 100 1960s
by Petrol. 06/24/17 10:11 PM
hammer time
by David Farley. 06/24/17 08:01 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,442
Posts2,638,851
Members88,176
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0