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#1251078 - 08/17/09 09:29 PM New M&H AA adjustments  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Zooplibob Offline
Full Member
Zooplibob  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Houston, TX
Hi everyone, I got a new M&H AA and after playing a week on it have started to notice a few things. I will have someone come out and voice it in a few weeks, but I'd like to get you guys' opinion first to let me know if they are fixable.

To hear these you'll probably have to wear headphones since its kind of subtle.

1) Dud bass strings
http://www.eggma.org/bass.mp3
About 4 of the bass strings sound muted, dull, not pretty, not rich. In the recording, they are the F#, G, G#, A. The A# above them sounds good and is the first string after the bridge break, but those 4 below it are like this. The F below them all and down all sound great. The F# which I keep banging also has a little buzz when it gets hit loud and repeatedly.

So you think we are talking a string issue, a hammer issue, or an unfixable piano characteristic?

2) Clicking-like sound on high A's
www.eggma.org/treble.mp3
This seems like it would be easier to fix. They make a tapping/clicking sound that the notes around them dont make. Its only on the top 2 A's. Is this a hammer adjustment or something with the keys themselves?


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#1251740 - 08/18/09 11:52 PM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: Zooplibob]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Dave Stahl Offline
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Dave Stahl  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
There are too many things going on here for anyone to give an accurate diagnosis or to offer solutions to fix these problems. Just because we're on line and posting in a place where everyone in the world can read it (....uuuurkkk....) doesn't mean we know any more than the guy who's coming out to service your instrument.

On the other hand, if it turns out that he/she is unable to solve any or all of your piano's issues, try to get a referral for a technician from someone you trust.


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net
#1251746 - 08/19/09 12:25 AM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,175
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member
charleslang  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,175
Obviously Dave Stahl is the ranking troubleshooter so I'm sure he's right. But I like to speculate and you asked . . .

Is it in tune? The bass string you hit most often in the recording sounds like the unison is 'out'. I'm not a pro but I've got a tuning hammer for exactly that reason -- to get the unisons perfect. I could be wrong but that's my first thought as an amateur.

The higher notes sound like a voicing issue. What I'm hearing sounds like there isn't a mechanical problem with the action but rather the hammer/string interface is not transferring the hammer energy to sound energy as well as it could. This could be a matter of the strike point being off (in the treble the 'sweet' striking point is very small so a slight misalignment can have a significant effect). It could also just be plain voicing of the hammer.





charlessamuellang.com
Semi-pro pianist and piano technician
Tuesdays 5-8:30 at Vince's West Sacramento, California
#1253345 - 08/21/09 11:02 AM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: Zooplibob]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 186
nhpianos Offline
Full Member
nhpianos  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 186
NH/US
Originally Posted by Zooplibob

2) Clicking-like sound on high A's
www.eggma.org/treble.mp3
This seems like it would be easier to fix. They make a tapping/clicking sound that the notes around them dont make. Its only on the top 2 A's. Is this a hammer adjustment or something with the keys themselves?


Have your technician check the pinning of the offending hammershanks. There was a period shortly after M&H changed parts suppliers where I encountered loose pinning in several of their pianos. Not difficult to fix, and should be a permanent repair (as much as anything is permanent in pianos!).

- Mark


Mark Dierauf, RPT
NH Pianos
Piano technician & rebuilder since 1978
www.nhpianos.com
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#1253394 - 08/21/09 12:13 PM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: Zooplibob]  
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 306
jpscoey Offline
Full Member
jpscoey  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 306
Manchester, England, UK.
Originally Posted by Zooplibob


1) Dud bass strings
http://www.eggma.org/bass.mp3
About 4 of the bass strings sound muted, dull, not pretty, not rich. In the recording, they are the F#, G, G#, A. The A# above them sounds good and is the first string after the bridge break, but those 4 below it are like this. The F below them all and down all sound great. The F# which I keep banging also has a little buzz when it gets hit loud and repeatedly.

So you think we are talking a string issue, a hammer issue, or an unfixable piano characteristic?

2) Clicking-like sound on high A's
www.eggma.org/treble.mp3
This seems like it would be easier to fix. They make a tapping/clicking sound that the notes around them dont make. Its only on the top 2 A's. Is this a hammer adjustment or something with the keys themselves?


As far as being to offer an accurate diagnosis from 1000's of miles away.....

and not being able to even see the piano eek - I'll offer my humble opinions!!!

Point 1: Firstly the piano very obviously needs tuning for a start.

Some of those unisons & octaves are badly out.

There's no point even thinking about tone issues until the piano is in tune.

The two most likely causes of the 'buzzing' on the F# are either the strings winding

being loose, or the string is catching the damper wire.


Point 2: From the sound of it, this is probably one of three things.

In order of the likeliest - (1). loose hammer heads, (2). loose flange screws,

or (3). -as previously mentioned- loose hammer centres.


Of course there could be any number of other things (coin etc on soundboard,

bridge problem, front keypin set too high/touch washers too thin or worn etc etc...

the list goes on),

but this is where I would look first.


Hope this helps - I'd be interested to hear what your tech says?


John Schofield. NTC Dip. , C.G.L.I.
Professional piano tuner/technician since 1982.
myspace
#1253455 - 08/21/09 01:48 PM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: jpscoey]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,548
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,548
Oakland
Make a list of the problems you hear, and show them to the store tech when you get your first tuning. Be there when the job is done so that you can approve the work or ask about any problems that remain. There is no point to asking us about your issues until you have done this.


Semipro Tech
#1254708 - 08/23/09 04:46 PM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: BDB]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Zooplibob Offline
Full Member
Zooplibob  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Houston, TX
Hi everyone, thanks for the input. I know some of you are annoyed that I am asking about this before the tech comes out, but I've found most of your responses very helpful! I have no idea how competent the guy will be, so having some of your comments might help out if he says he can't do any more.

I appreciate trying to figure out the issue just over a few second MP3. If he indeed does fix the problem, we'll see who get the prize for most correct answers!

Thanks again everyone.

#1255021 - 08/24/09 08:52 AM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: Zooplibob]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,851
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Stevester  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,851
New Jersey
I really think these issues should be addressed with the dealer before they hit the public forums.


"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon
#1255577 - 08/25/09 12:02 AM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: Stevester]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Zooplibob Offline
Full Member
Zooplibob  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Houston, TX
Originally Posted by Stevester
I really think these issues should be addressed with the dealer before they hit the public forums.


Why do you think that? I've already discussed it with the dealer and he's sending someone out soon. I just wanted some other opinions and more knowledge whether or not these are common/fixable issues. Are you worried it gives something/someone a bad reputation?

#1262449 - 09/04/09 02:19 PM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: Zooplibob]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Zooplibob Offline
Full Member
Zooplibob  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Houston, TX
Well a tech came today and took care of #2. He put some lubricant on the little screw on top of the action that he said was loose. I cant remember the name of it, but that fixed the problem.

#1 he said was a voicing issue.

#1262476 - 09/04/09 02:51 PM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: Zooplibob]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,175
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member
charleslang  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,175
Have you decided yet whether it is a keeper?


charlessamuellang.com
Semi-pro pianist and piano technician
Tuesdays 5-8:30 at Vince's West Sacramento, California
#1262553 - 09/04/09 05:44 PM Re: New M&H AA adjustments [Re: charleslang]  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Zooplibob Offline
Full Member
Zooplibob  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 245
Houston, TX
Guess that depends on whether or not the other issues are fixed through voicing. Will let you know.


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