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I haven't posted in a while guys, but with good reason ... 4 AP classes and 3 honors are slowly killing me. One of them happens to be AP music. I do really well on the written portion and listening sections... today though we had our first sightsinging quiz. It took my 3 tries to get all the notes + rhythm + phrasing down... that equals a 70. I was very disapointed for almost all of the day. Anyone have any tips for getting better at sightsinging? I have a really good ear to pick up things and can really figure out things... in front of a piano. Singing is really new to me, and sightsinging is even newer. Also, on a related note... theory is actually kinda fun. Matt
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Anyone have any tips for getting better at sightsinging? I have a really good ear to pick up things and can really figure out things... in front of a piano. Singing is really new to me, and sightsinging is even newer. Which is why you're finding it difficult . Practice is what you need - you can do it at the piano, self-checking as you go. Practice your intervals, vocally (don't stress about your vocal quality ). You can also profitably use moveable do solfege, though I don't particularly want to become embroiled in a fixed do vs. moveable do argument . Actually, 3 tries for a first time doesn't sound too bad to me!
Du holde Kunst...
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As currawong suggested - and like almost any skill - the less experienced you are at it, the more difficult it is to do. Ergo : practice the skill until it becomes easier.
Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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Yeah, practice it more and you'll get better. Make sure you at least glance at the whole thing before starting - I found that helped me a little. Rhythmically scan through it. I don't know if I'm right, but I think people in general have more trouble with the rhythm rather than the pitch when sightsinging.
"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
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I can commiserate. I had my first Aural Theory class today and I found even sight singing as a group was very,very difficult. Now remember, I haven't done any theory written or aural in almost 40 years and when I learned solfege back in the "middle ages" we used fixed do. I kept finding myself falling back into using fixed do. My brain just couldn't translate the intervals. The poor girl sitting next to me, a voice major I might add, kept looking at me like I was crazy.
Last edited by DameMyra; 09/04/09 09:18 PM.
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I kept finding myself falling back into using fixed do. My brain just couldn't translate the intervals. The poor girl sitting next to me, a voice major I might add, kept looking at me like I was crazy. What is "fixed do"?
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"Fixed do" means you sing a note as "do" only when it actually IS that note. In other words, you sing the note name of whatever note you see, ignoring sharps or flats. In "moveable do," though, you sing "do" as the first scale degree no matter what key you're in, and the same goes for the other notes (e.g. scale degree 2 = re).
The first system is about note names, the other is about scale degrees.
Personally, I'm eternally grateful that I've never had to sing using moveable do. It seems like a system in which the end doesn't justify the difficulty and confusion created. Fixed do, to me, just seems more logical: sing what you see. Either way, practicing is indispensable for fluency and ease, like everyone says.
Here's an exercise you can do: try having someone play a scale, then have that person pick out any note in the scale, and you try to identify it by singing your way back to the tonic, either up or down, which will tell you what it is, then see if you were right. Here's another very good one: try singing melodies using scale degree numbers. Just write out any melody in scale degrees (e.g. 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 1), remembering to indicate which are below the tonic or above the octave . Sing a scale or tonic arpeggio or both, to establish your tonic, then sing the melody. It's great practice--it can be pretty fun, and it's a very useful tool to know!
There are probably such exercises available online here and there. Be aware that you probably won't feel too competent for a while, but once you get the hang of it, it really helps to make sight-singing a lot easier. I would say it accomplishes pretty much the same thing as moveable do--knowing what your scale degrees sound like--but with a lot less frustration.
"Where words fail, music speaks." --Hans Christian Andersen
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Personally, I'm eternally grateful that I've never had to sing using moveable do. It seems like a system in which the end doesn't justify the difficulty and confusion created. The confusion only comes when you try to use both systems instead of just one or the other. If you haven't ever used do-re-mi to mean C-D-E then moveable do is no more confusing than using scale degree numbers, in fact it's more or less the same thing. But I said I wasn't going to get onto this, didn't I - oops.
Du holde Kunst...
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scherzetto, wonderful explanation. And currawong, you're right, The only two people twho seemed to have trouble with moveable do were me and the other girl who had learned fixed. That I learned that method over 40 years ago just reinforces what has been mentioned on this board many times anout memory. Many people find it easier to play from memory pieces they learned years ago rather than just recently.My mind somehow was "locked in" to something I had learned and practiced as a teen.
Last edited by DameMyra; 09/05/09 07:39 AM.
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If Fixed Do means sing what you see. Treble clef, third space is always "Do."
Moveable Do means sing what you hear. At the end of a piece when you arrive on tonic, you'll always sing "Do."
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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Anyone have any tips for getting better at sightsinging? I have a really good ear to pick up things and can really figure out things... in front of a piano. Singing is really new to me, and sightsinging is even newer. Which is why you're finding it difficult . Practice is what you need - I agree but I think maybe it's not just practice. There may be two things going on. One is that sightsinging is new, but the other is that you're being forced to do it in real time. This won't apply to everybody of course depending on your background. But a lot of the time we tend to practice skills at our own pace - not our own tempo, however slow, but at our own pace, which is not rigidly connected to any tempo. Then when we're forced to perform in real time it's not the same skill. I would suggest practicing the sight singing either along with a metronome or with a recording. You'll make more mistakes, which is what you need. Other instruments do a higher percentage of their practice connected to external time, and I think it speeds learning for some skills.
gotta go practice
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Hi Matt...I remember needing to learn how to sightsing in college. Here are a couple of tricks I learned.
Can you figure out the scale numbers in a key pretty easily? I hope you are only doing Major Keys at the moment. ;-)
I am sure that you are quite familiar with the triad sound of 1 3 5 3 1 - Do Me Sol? Practice those. Think of them in the correct key -with skips on the written page too - line line line or space space space. Practice 1 3 1; 1 5 1; think one, sing 3 then 3 5 3; then 5 3 5
5 1 is the common dominant7 to tonic sound - at the end of a piece or A MEN in a hymn. Sol Do.
Speaking of A MEN it is also 5 8
OK - now for 1 6 4 - play thaton the piano and you will hear CLOCK CHIMES or the old N B C on TV (maybe you don't know about that?) Practice 1 6 1; 1 blank 4. I also envision that on the piano as inverted F chord (c on bottom)
Not many things would have 1 7 1 but you will see 7 8 This is also called Leading tone to Tonic. Think of the scale degrees and sing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and what happens in your mind? 8! Practice 1 8 1 and for me again 7-8 is an A MEN
Hope this helps. It always did me.
LL
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
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I haven't posted in a while guys, but with good reason ... 4 AP classes and 3 honors are slowly killing me. Matt 7 different courses? As a former teacher I'm curious which AP's you're taking. Maybe you should consider dropping one course.
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Currawong, you may have a very good point there. I never thought of it that way. It's probably true, I think my difficulty comes from having used do-re-mi to mean C-D-E. I think if I'd learned moveable do without knowing fixed do, it may have been a useful tool for me, but it's a little too late now, lol!
In the end, the point is to find whatever works for you (and is acceptable to your teachers), and use that. Try out both systems, and see which one you're more comfortable with, unless like in Dame Myra's case, one has been specified... I can sympathize, DM! Maybe, though, you will come out of it a stronger sight-singer for having learned both systems.
One thing I forgot to mention that I think another poster was referring to: tricks for intervals. If you have an established set of tricks for each interval (e.g., that a perfect fourth sounds like the first two notes of the song "Here Comes the Bride"), you'll have a pretty reliable tool to back you up should your ear ever fail you in exams because of nerves (which is not uncommon)! Lastly, try to establish control of yourself and your nerves, and try not to let whatever environment you happen to be in get you flustered when you're in the exam room. Perhaps you could establish a sort of simple routine. Easier said than done, but it's very much possible.
"Where words fail, music speaks." --Hans Christian Andersen
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5 1 is the common dominant7 to tonic sound - at the end of a piece or A MEN in a hymn. Sol Do.
Speaking of A MEN it is also 5 8
More commonly (in my experience) Amen is sung as a subdominant to tonic cadence, perhaps Do-Do, or La-Sol.
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Those as well Ferninand. But if one is aware of the Sol Do A MEN sound, it at least gives them something to relate to when they see that combo while sight singing. I doubt one would need the Do Do Amen trick!!!
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But if one is aware of the Sol Do A MEN sound, it at least gives them something to relate to when they see that combo while sight singing. A men is not Sol Do (V I). It is a Plagal Cadence (IV I) giving the movable do notes for the different voices of Fa, La, Do (degrees 4,6,1) for "A" of "A-men", and Do mi So (degrees 1,3,5) for the voices for "men". Typically, a soprano might sing "do do" (1 1), the bass might sing "fa do" (4 1), and we often hear a middle voice gliding down in a "la - so fa mi" melismatically - essentially La Mi (6(5,4) 3).
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But if one is aware of the Sol Do A MEN sound, it at least gives them something to relate to when they see that combo while sight singing. A men is not Sol Do (V I). It is a Plagal Cadence (IV I) giving the movable do notes for the different voices of Fa, La, Do (degrees 4,6,1) for "A" of "A-men", and Do mi So (degrees 1,3,5) for the voices for "men". Typically, a soprano might sing "do do" (1 1), the bass might sing "fa do" (4 1), and we often hear a middle voice gliding down in a "la - so fa mi" melismatically - essentially La Mi (6(5,4) 3). No disagreement there! IV I is often used. Use that trick then when you are sight singing! There is also G to C (V I) where the men sing 5 1 unless things have changed since I was a church organist/choir director awhile back. Gimme a break! You guys wanna fight? LOL!
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Lilylady, some things are essential facts that we base ourselves on, such as the names of the notes on the keyboard and staff. The "A-men cadence" is a common reference we use to remember the IV-I Plagal cadence, and if you state that it is 5-1 it can cause confusion to those of us who are learning. This is not fighting.
Here's a question: Does A-men get sung as a Perfect cadence as well?
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Quoting myself from above, Keystring -
"But if one is aware of the Sol Do A MEN sound, it at least gives them something to relate to when they see that combo while sight singing."
I didn't want to confuse the issue of the Plagal Amen, which is why I wrote, "if one is aware of the sol do A Men sound"
Didn't mean to confuse you OR Matt - I was trying to help.
And to this, since we have no argument - I'll end with
"So Be It"
"A-----Men!"
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
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