Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum how to motivate my son to practice?

Asking what he would like to play could help and will perhaps give him some sense of ownership and responsibility for his practice. Make sure he understands that that this is not an alternative to the assignments set by his teacher. I like it when a student chooses their own music and encourage them to do so as long as they contintue to practise what I have set them. The pieces and exercises I set are progressive and appropriate to their level and are based on my experience as a teacher of what needs to be done to develop the right skills and habits. You should talk to the teacher about this.

I still think it's the routine that's the problem here. I wouldn't worry about waiting until he is inspired to practise either, you could be waiting a long time. That inspiration often comes during a practice session so just try to make sure he sits down at the piano and opens the fallboard. Help him out with what to practise and how to practise but don't give him the option of not practising. Given the choice they will always rather watch TV or play video games.

You might find this interesting.

I teach a few kids who complain about practice and their parents tell me how difficult it is to get them to sit for half an hour. Many of them are siblings and I can imagine that having more than one child learning is hard because obviously practice time is double! When they come for their lesson I often teach one whilst the other goes into the back room (where I have another piano) and gets on with some practice. They seem to have no problem doing half an hours practice followed by a half hour lesson and not one of them moans about it. I guess this is because they have got used to the routine and just expect it. So if they can do it when they come to my studio why can't they do it at home?

From what you say, jnod, I ask myself if the difficulty is not your boy's motivation, but rather your own.

If you love music and piano, you only have to express that.

If it is not deeply important for you why should it be for him?

I can't agree more. For example, Suteki da ne from Final Fantasy is a total workhorse for learning triplets. The piece has loads of them - and is so fun to play regardless!

I am not a good sample, as adults tend to have different goals than children learning piano - my lessons can be less structured than those of youngsters, I'm playing just for my pure enjoyment. I use a similar approach to what Hugh said with my teacher. We work on two or three pieces at the same time to make it more interesting. From these pieces two of them are those which I really wanted to play, and one is chosen by my teacher to nurture certain technical skills she thinks need improvement. It works well for me - I couldn't have more fun with piano.


M.

I agree with this and rada. The problem is practice is done alone, and with very little purpose to an 8 year old.

Weird posts rada and kbk. I don't think there's anything in my posts that suggests that my son practices alone or that I don't convey my interest in or love of music to him. My concern is the opposite, that I may be imposing my interest on him while his interests lie elsewhere.

There is alone and then there is alone. Are you really interested in his playing? In situ? What I mean is - do you enjoy his music making? That is, not the fact that he is making music but the actual music he is making?

Justin -

Threads start off with one thing and sometimes just evolve to thoughts and suggestions that are for 'others' reading, not just the O Poster.

You have some very good advice above of which I would have stated as well, had they not been already.

Hopefully with those, he'll continue to enjoy and make music!

LL

Yes, Hugh, of course finding out what a student enjoys is paramount! Keyboard Companion (not Clavier Companion) magazine has a section titled "Pupil Savers", and my pedagogy teacher also gave me a list of pupil saver pieces. Of course, one has to know the student and ask questions to find out what interests them. Asking them after a studio recital which piece they liked the best, noticing their practice habits on certain styles of pieces, et.c are often the best clues. Many younger students don't have formed opinions yet, but we discover them together.

The idea of video game music is a great one, and for those who may not yet be capable of playing some of the stuff in full (some of it is very difficult), helping them to learn the melody by ear is a great ear training tool and a great way to apply what they've learned in their scales (finding the key signature) and intervals. Then learning to accompany it with chords in the LH is a great way to apply what they've learned in chord progressions and harmony. Once they find the real reason why they're asked to do these things, they are more likely to practice it and enjoy it.

For anyone interested, I wrote up an article about two sites that have a wealth of Japanese Anime (cartoon) sheet music:

Anime Sheet Music Resources Online

My oldest son is a huge fan of various anime TV shows and movies - we're planning on working through a Chinese score, and then transcribe a Japanese cartoon theme song for him (no scores that I could find for "Danzai no hana" so far...)

Justin,

That's why it's important for children to have or be given a voice to express their feelings. If they can put their experience in words to share it with you, the parent and the piano teacher won't have to be guessing about anything.

If we let the child speak and not try to correct his words or make them agree with our own, we will get a valuable input that really represents the child and his needs.

One has to ask simple questions of him in a way that seems like conversation to him. If done with a smile on your face you're likely to get even more information that you asked.

One thing parents resort to is a forcing of an issue before it's time. It takes time and consideration to make changes with a piano student - a change inplemented does not always immediately make a difference. Continued observation will tell you if a new approach is working.

As far as motivation goes, the best kind comes from within the person who needs motivation to practice. He is possibly too young to see the logic that more time with the piece and working things out to be prepared works wonders with the quality of his presentation at lesson.

Every lesson, to me, needs about 3 hours of practice for intermediate students. For beginners, it's not an hourly time that gets results, it's the playing 3 - 5 times of each piece on a daily basic that brings familiarity in every way - eyes know what's on the page, fingers feel their work being done, the ears hear the rhythm, tempo, and the sound. The mind and body need the exercise of coordinating all the tasks in the music together until they are very familiar and doable. Time and effort are the main ingredients.

Try praise with him for the things you think he is doing well, try encouragement for things that need more attention. Try not to be over his shoulder with your comments. Smile, look directly in his eyes, speak conversationally. Ask questions. Give him hugs, shake his hand, give high 5's. Listen to the verbs he uses about piano lessons or practice, hear his adjectives. Make a list of them for about 2 weeks to a month. Look for clues that he gives. Try to put yourself into his position from where he is today, where he was when he started, and where he hope to go.

There are so many more things to be said, but this is enough for now. The long term goal here would be to keep him from quitting by understanding his needs and making sucess in his lessons possible as well as some degree of fun or satisfaction. Another long term goal would be that his practice ethics improve because he has found some things that work to his benefit, he understands the reasons for practice, and he can agree that practice is essential to him.

Practice is an ugly word - "making music" - "playing your piano" - anything that identifies it positively for you and he would be a good substitute work. Practice - has the word "act" in it have you noticed. Maybe you would convince him that the pr stands for "prepared". (Prepared action).

Betty Patnude

"Practice is an ugly word - "making music" - "playing your piano" - anything that identifies it positively for you and he would be a good substitute wor'd'."


Those substitutions might be a good start.

However before you all jump on us...we know that practice should become a good word!!!

So I really like a lot of these ideas – very helpful. I love the idea of making the music kids play interesting, exciting and fun. Why not? The anime thing is pure genius!

But I'm not sure I buy the idea that practicing isn't practicing. One of the glorious things about children is their capacity to see through the subterfuge of their parents and adults generally ("Mmmmmmmm, this broccoli is dee-lish-ous!!” Picture rolling eyes).

My feeling is that it makes more sense to recognize that practicing is basically work. It's rewarding, it can be fun and making music is among the greatest ways to use your time. It’s not work in the sense that taking the trash out or paying your taxes is work. But it is work - sometimes hard work. It can tire you out. Sometimes you just aren't in the zone and can't get it right. It's fair to go at it hard some days and take it a little easier on others. Maybe since you figured out your first melodic minor yesterday we’ll just to a few simple majors today.

This just seems more honest to me and I think most kids can tell honest from…well… the sort of propagandistic stuff we tell them to get them to eat their greens and do their spelling. Another virtue of this is that the sense of accomplishment that comes with doing something well is greater. Mastering something that is difficult should be rewarded and recognized.

Playing devil's advocate to some extent but I'm curious to hear people's reaction to this.

My reaction is that two of us just agreed on an idea, but you have rejected it...

You came here asking for ideas.

Oh well...So it goes...

That is your perogative but you will not see me offering any more suggestions to you. I don't have an argument in this discussion.

It had nothing to do with being dishonest, BTW.

And you have many other ideas from other posters.

My view: practicing, whatever we call it, can also be playing. And playing can be play. I tend to agree with you. I don't like playing with semantics. I want my students to experience practicing as something that makes them feel good because they are accomplishing something, and that "something" makes them feel good about themselves.

I point out, quite often, that work can also be fun, if it is the right kind of work, something that interests us, or it can pure agony when we hate what we are doing for work.

And since you mentioned brocolli, I'd say what makes the difference is not saying it is good but finding a way to cook it that makes it taste good.

Actually, when done the wrong way, it is every bit like taking out the trash or paying taxes.

Hard work can be intense fun. However, when that happens, people do not perceive what they are doing as work.

But I get no sense of pleasure out of mastering something difficult if it is something I must do but would never, in a million years, choose to do unless I had to. I believe the real reward is a feeling of enjoyment, of some kind, and if it only happens later, if it remains a matter of totally delayed gratification (and gratification that may or my not happen).

Thanks Gary D - well put.

And also, I seem to have offended Lilylady (and possibly others). This really was not my intent! Sorry if this is the case!

jnod,

I have never shied away from using the word 'practice.' My son didn't just 'play' at playing the piano. From his first time on the bench, the word practice was part of the vocabulary. We didn't endow the word with any negative connotations. Quite to the contrary, in fact. In school, many kids see the uselessness of repetitive worksheets pounding home the same basic facts and techniques long after repetition yields any meaningful benefit. But practicing the piano generated continual improvement in basic skill and technique. If the child can see and feel the benefit then there is no particular need to play a semantic game or to pretend that piano is like homework. Heck, it's better than homework given that most homework tends to be geared toward the lowest levels of understanding.

For young ones, I think there has to be a good sized goal in the distance, and there must be meaningful intermediate steps that can be conquered sequentially. The kid needs to buy in to the goals and they need to get a kick out of mastering the steps. Finding what motivates the child is really important. If they are extraverted and gain real pleasure from how others perceive them, that's one thing. My oldest fit this pattern when he was younger. If they are intensely self-directed and tend to be impervious to what others think, that's another thing entirely.

Justin,

You are an adult and you have formed your opinions all of your life based on your experience and your way of projecting outcomes.

Believe me, a child will do better at music lessons if we can engage him in playful and pleasant music making experiences.

I, of course, believe in the work ethic, I use it in my teaching, however I get the student's cooperation to meet thier practice, time, effort, work, task requirement by not forcing these words down their throats as something they have to do. I want them to want to do them because they get results, make you feel good, confident, bright, alert, happy, ready for more progress.

It's unfortunate that so many of these words which describe what we do seem so old hat. I'm 66 and talk like a 66 year old, but I've had 38 years of teaching experience. I've had to reframe these words to meet these kids potential, promise, future, and not to turn them off. Words become archaic over time. Words that mean a lot to us aren't going to mean a thing to younger people.

I'm all for pursuit of excellence, but not perfection. I'm all for high standards. I'm not saying we have to dumb down the materials and make everything fun. I'm saying some words and the way we have pursued music study in the past are obstacles to the kids of today. Actually, they've been passe for a long time, the new word seems to be "enjoyment" oriented. Wouldn't that be the best motivator to do what we have to do to make the brain and body connections to be able to make music in the first place?

I detect from what you have left off of the place of suggestions made, that you might be fully engrained in the "old school". You'll never convince your child to play piano from that point of view. Also, the child should pretty much be allowed to behave naturally with his own responses coming to light for the teacher to notice and work with. Having an oppositional parent at home is worse than having no parent support.

Have you spoken with the teacher about what you are posting here? That would be a good step if you would level with her about your concerns.

Let the little guy be for a while and see what he is able to produce on his own. And, why don't you take some lessons too so that you can feel the pressure of being on the bench for a lesson and then to practice up for the next lesson. I wonder if you would become more enlightened very quickly about being a piano student. It would give you a place to put some of your theories about what should be happening.

Let his piano teacher be his guide in the interim. He is young and the teaching-learning situation in young, too.

What you are calling propaganda is simply effective communication with today's children. Paced for a child, spoken to a child's experience and vocabulary. Suitable for capturing their attention to make it possible to put all the difficult things they will be doing into their musical future. We can't teach a student without their interest and cooperation. Rebellion sets in at some point if we don't make it easy for them to get on board in the first place.

Carrying a big stick doesn't help - although I was asking for a whistle, and the little league coaches influence recently - it doesn't work. I came at lessons in my beginning teaching years with my authoratative and self-disciplined voice - the voices that had been my teachers. When the "San Fernando Valley Girls" speech came on the scene, I realized all kinds of new words had come on the scene and I didn't know what any of them meant. I was speaking old hat. Not that I learned or used VG language, but it was eye-opening.

Step by step in teaching I try to "Keep it Simple" with just "enough" said for the students to get each piece off to a good start. If they can play through the music at lesson, they will practice. If teachers assign music that is not played first at the lesson, students are going to hate to admit that they don't understand the assignment and are having trouble with it. This is the start of excuse making and bugging out.

Your son has a great brain I'm sure. Give him the opportunity to use it and be accountable to himself and his piano teacher.

This is a very interesting discussion. I agree with Hugh that there is a shift about to happen with traditional piano lessons. I've been teaching for 30 years and for the first time I have students speaking up for themselves about what they want to learn and how they want to spend their lesson time. And it's not all about pop music. I have had students working on all-Chopin programs, or all-Baroque. One girl right now is hooked on anything resembling a Spanish dance. Others are learning Coldplay, Eric Clapton, songs from musicals, jazz, etc.

The only thing I insist on any more in a typical lesson is that the students become proficient sight readers and that they work on finger technique with arm weight, scales and cadences. As far as repertoire goes, I give the kids free rein to choose what they want to learn. I'm enjoying the lessons more than ever, and my students are progressing nicely.

On another note, I have a similar situation with my daughter. She's 14 and has been studying violin with an excellent teacher for about 4 years. She has a natural talent and he has suggested that she should be practicing at least 2 hours a day. There's also been talk about majoring in music.

My daughter only practices a total of about 30 minutes a week, culminating with a wonderful one hour lesson every Wednesday. But when I talk to her about it... her response is "But I don't want to be really good because I don't want to have to go into music." So she's satisfied with being better than most but not first chair. (On the other hand she spends hours drawing and writing.)

In my opinion, we have to give these kids more credit for knowing themselves better than we think they do.

Why do you think your students are changing so much?

I was like that in the 1950s and 1960s, so it can't only be about what is happening now. And because of the way I learned, and the way I think about music, it seems my students have always had very definite ideas about what they wanted to play.

Perhaps it is mostly about taking the time to find out what they really want. Sometimes I think we, as teachers, change more than they do, and perhaps the way we change is more linked to our age than to the times.

An insight worth considering further. I'm willing to bet that many parents have had the experience of seeing their children behaving in less than productive (or compassionate or wise) ways who have responded with some form of "I wasn't born yesterday, you know." And yet we have had to work hard really to remember what we were like at age ten. If we're honest (and have a normal memory!) it's often difficult to conjure up even an imperfect image of our own selves at a younger and much less responsible age.