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fingerings in Henle editions
#1260002 08/31/09 10:07 PM
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Is anyone familiar with typographic conventions used in Henle scores, specifically the difference between fingering in italics and fingering in plain roman type? There's no acknowledgment of it in a legend or footnote or otherwise.

Is anything known (or can anything be assumed) about the distinction? Thanks in advance!

Steven

Re: fingerings in Henle editions
sotto voce #1260009 08/31/09 10:22 PM
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Which Henle edition of which work? Just curious.

Conventionally, fingerings in plain type are editorial, and fingerings in italics are by the composer. This of course assumes a work where fingerings from the composer survive, and the edition is scholarly enough to distinguish between them and editorial fingerings.

Of course, it could also be used in general to distinguish fingerings from two different sources, whether one is the composer or not.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: fingerings in Henle editions
Janus K. Sachs #1260013 08/31/09 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Janus K. Sachs
Which Henle edition of which work? Just curious.

It's Schumann's Toccata (HN 201), edited by Wolfgang Boetticher, fingering by Hans-Martin Theopold.

Originally Posted by Janus K. Sachs
Conventionally, fingerings in plain type are editorial, and fingerings in italics are by the composer....

Dang. The Paderewski editions of Chopin do just the opposite, so I would have come to the wrong conclusion!

Steven

Re: fingerings in Henle editions
sotto voce #1260033 08/31/09 11:20 PM
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Just to make sure, I went through the prefaces and critical commentaries of the four big volumes of the Boetticher edition of a big selection of Schumann's piano works (HN 201 is basically an excerpt from the fourth of these volumes, HN 114/115). The preface and critical commentary of HN 114/115 don't say anything about the difference between fingerings in plain type and italics. However, the preface of the first volume (HN 108/109) states that "fingering printed in italics has been adopted from the first editions." Perhaps it could be assumed that this statement also applies to the fourth volume (the one that contains the Toccata).

Make of that what you will. Boetticher probably assumed that the fingerings from the first editions were by the composer.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: fingerings in Henle editions
Janus K. Sachs #1260036 08/31/09 11:24 PM
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Janus, thanks very much. smile

Steven

Re: fingerings in Henle editions
sotto voce #1260039 08/31/09 11:32 PM
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You're very welcome. Such inquiries attract the bumbling scholar in me.

BTW, you can view/download most of Henle's prefaces and critical commentaries from their website. Here's the English version:

http://www.henle.de/index.cfm?lang=en

From there, just navigate through their catalogue until you reach the desired edition.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: fingerings in Henle editions
Janus K. Sachs #1260047 08/31/09 11:46 PM
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I recently learned of the commentaries that are available online from Henle—great resource!—and had checked the one for HN 114/115. Unless I overlooked it completely, though, there were no notes at all concerning the Toccata.

Steven

Re: fingerings in Henle editions
sotto voce #1260054 08/31/09 11:55 PM
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It's probably due to the fact that the differences between the original version and the revised version (the one everyone knows) are so great, and that a scholarly edition of the revised version need not do anything further than to reproduce the first edition(s), since variants of the revised version do not exist.

I haven't seen the original version, but the preface of HN 114/115 states that the manuscript survives. I really wonder just how different it is from the revised version.


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: fingerings in Henle editions
Janus K. Sachs #1260058 09/01/09 12:04 AM
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I wonder, too. The preface to my HN 201 mentions drafts and sketches; according to Maurice Hinson in Guide to the Pianist's Repertoire, the piece was "first written in D then transposed to C." He doesn't elaborate, though.

Steven

Re: fingerings in Henle editions
sotto voce #1260065 09/01/09 12:28 AM
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If I recall correctly, Schumann said that the revised version is "less wild" than the original in D. Fascinating description...


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: fingerings in Henle editions
Janus K. Sachs #1260435 09/01/09 03:07 PM
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JKS :

I'm grateful to you for alerting me to the fact that Comments and Prefaces to Henle editions are available for download online from the Henle website. I have many older Henles that have neither Prefaces nor Comments - or have them only in German - and they are sometimes very useful to have.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: fingerings in Henle editions
Janus K. Sachs #1266370 09/11/09 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Janus K. Sachs
Conventionally, fingerings in plain type are editorial, and fingerings in italics are by the composer.

I've gotten confirmation that this is correct; Janus's subsequent quotation from the preface to a larger compilation—"fingering printed in italics has been adopted from the first editions"—does in fact apply to the Toccata.

I inquired directly to Henle via contact information at their website (why didn't I think of that before? smile ), and received a response that was immediate, cordial and informative. Newly revised editions of Schumann are currently in preparation, and an 1830 version of the Toccata will be included.

Steven

Re: fingerings in Henle editions
sotto voce #1266397 09/11/09 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sotto voce
Newly revised editions of Schumann are currently in preparation, and an 1830 version of the Toccata will be included.


Utterly kewl!


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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