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There have been several posts about difficult students. Maybe I am feeling cynical but I thought I would start this thread.

This is my WORST STUDENT EVER.

A year ago I took two sisters and a cousin.

These three girls were at my house for about two hours taking lessons. Mom dropped them all off at one. They were in third and fourth grade in school (not piano).

They ran all over the house and the back yard. Several times I made them come in and sit and the minute I turned my back they were off again.

My studio is set up at one end of the house. The living room and kitchen are at the other end and my children entertain themselves in the basement. They are usually not around the piano families during lessons.

These three girls tormented my four year old. They teased him till he cried. (Mind you, I am teaching one while the other two ran amuck.) My son got a brand new plastic puppet as a vacation souvenir. They took it out of his hand and ran to the bathroom and locked the door. I could hear my son screaming. I went to investigate and the girls emerged from the bathroom with the broken puppet. They explained it was an accident. I forgave it.

For the month I taught them, the girls constantly called my four year old to them then ran and locked themselves in a room or ran around the house leaving him crying. I talked to the mother about running all over the house and that she needed to drop off and pick up each student and they weren‘t allowed to stay and wait.

The next lesson she picked up and dropped them off one at a time. At the end of all three lessons she came in to talk.

My son got a brand new toy tool set just hours before lessons started. As we talked the girls and my son were in the front yard. Soon I heard my son screaming again. When the mother and I went outside, the girls were in the van. I couldn’t figure out what the problem was. The mom got in her van. As she drove off the side van door opened and the tool box and tools were thrown out on the grass. The mother didn’t even notice. My son was still screaming and off she drove. Scattered in the grass were broken tools.

They stole my sons tools and locked themselves in the van and as he screamed they broke the tools.

The next time the family came I confronted the mother again. She made excuse after excuse. She told me they have a four year old brother and they are just teasing my son like the do their brother. She said “Don’t your sons tease their four year old brother!” I said no, they don’t!

Finally she screamed at me “How much were the toys? We will just pay for them!”
I kept my cool and politely told her I wasn’t able to teach her kids. She loaded up the girls and stormed off.

That is my worse students ever story.

Wow. I have to admit, I'd be typing this story from computer in the prison library if it had been me. Your poor son.

You are more polite than I am. Sometimes you just have to be mean to these people.

My worst students don't come close to the brats you've described.

Wow, that was horrid story. Glad you got rid of the whole bunch of them.

My own children would never have behaved that way at that age; I certainly wouldn't let other people's kids act like that in my home.

I've found the longer I work in education that certain wild behavior is like background noise to me anymore, but there are certain ones that stand out and cause me to become an unruly childs nightmare. Those girls weren't teasing, they were tormenting. That's one of my trigger behaviors. Destruction of other peoples' property, ditto. Depending on what kind of mood I was in that day I may have had those girls ready to pee themselves by the time mom came back. Since I spend all day correcting other peoples' children as a job I sometimes find it near impossible to keep my mouth shut when I'm "off the clock". I've been perfecting a look to use when needed. I'm not mean or overly strict and I don't dislike kids in general, I just feel there's a limit to what anyone should have to tolerate and as I get older I'm becoming much more willing to let anyone know when that limit has been reached.

Wow...just...wow. The first sign of misbehavior would have had me calling the mother to come and sit with her children for the remainder of the lesson. A question though: do you not have anyone looking after your 4 year old while you're teaching? I think if there were an adult present it would have helped, and that might be necessary until he's a bit older anyways, so that when you're "at work" you can focus on your students. Just an idea.

However, it is not your responsibility to baby sit the others while you are teaching. I would have charge the mother what it cost to hire a babysitter as an option if she didn't want to watch her own children. Sounds as though the mother lets them get away with anything, though, and so I'm not sure how much good supervision she'd give. The girls probably act exactly the same way at home, and the mother is afraid to discipline them and so they rule the house. I bet the mother is miserable and at a loss as to what to do. Sad, but not your problem.

I think these things would have definitely been quite apparent in an interview. Did you meet with them before deciding to teach them?

I had an interview once with a woman who had home schooled her son but had him in Montessori for a year and was not sure if she should bring him home again for the coming year. For some reason, this meant he wouldn't be able to fit into his current teacher's schedule, so she was looking to transfer. When I met him, my heart went out to his previous teacher and I immediately understood why he wouldn't "fit" into her schedule anymore. I also sympathized with the Montessori teachers and knew why he wasn't making the progress his mother expected there. Sweet kid, but he was a terror. He ruled over his mother, and when he tried to do that in my studio, I told him flat out "No". He was everywhere at once, into everything. When my attention was on him, he shied away and clammed up, but as soon as I was speaking to his mother, he was off again.

I strongly urged her to consider the home-schooling option, perhaps to the chagrin of his previous piano teacher, but that is not my problem. We did not enroll in lessons that day, and while we had talked of the possibility of signing up, I didn't push for it and just told her to give me a call if interested. Had she called, I would have told her I didn't think it would work, but luckily she didn't call. I feel as though I dodged a bullet. Usually the interview goes very well and there's no problem, but every once in a while I get one of these that reminds me why I do the interviews.

In the 12 or more years I have been teaching I have never had any other students anywhere near that difficult. I knew that family was very dysfunctional before I started teaching them. These behavior problems were the results of bad parenting. The mother did nothing but make excuses for her children.

I had them one month and they were the only students I have ever let go.

My older boys were preteens and they are nice kids by nature but they were so fed up watching thier little brother being tormented that I knew it would come to blows soon.

Through tough experiences in our studios we learn what limitations we have to set on student's behaviors and attitudes.

We need to address these problems as soon as we see them. Just stop, get the kid's attention and say what you have to say making sure he understands what you said and why you said it. I make the effort to speak clearly, slower and pointedly to make sure he understands this is not casual conversation. Don't feel rushed take your time to be deliberate and convincing and make sure your comments are not open for negotiation or opposing comments.

There are times when we need to involve the parents. I always try to convey to them that we are a team of supportive people interested in the student's enjoyment and progress so occasionally we need to confer with each other about how things are going:and this is one of those times. If you think of it as sharing information about the child it reduces the tension a little bit, otherwise it can seem like an accusatory situation with no solution in mind. You really want to try for a meeting of the minds to affect cooperation and a possible change. At the least, you want the parent to know there is reason to talk.

Doing this without the student's presence is probably the best thing you can do to avoid escalation and negativity. If you can state it in such a way that gives you and the parent time to think about it or observe it with a projection of when and where you will talk. Not everything has an immediate answer.

If it's really a problem of safety or responsibility for one's actions that takes on a more immediate need to state it carefully and set the boundary lines very clearly. Protection of one's home is a priority and we are liable for accidents and injuries on our premises.

No one walks around my house at any time unless I've given them permission to leave the room for a purpose. Likewise, my yard.

I've established my rules and policies through my experiences in operating my piano studio - it's that simple. If I'm going to be an effective piano teacher, I have to give my attention to the positive things that we need to be doing. Negative things comes at a high price to the teacher and too many negative things from our students undermines our well being, health and confidence.

Sometimes, it's them, or us! I must say that thinking back on the last 10 years of teaching, things are much better in the "terrorize" the teacher department. In fact, I don't think I have much to complain about these days...but I also don't complain much because if I notice something amiss that needs fixing I know I have no problem in handling it as it's happening. At some point you get enough experience in dealing with difficult things and you find you stand on your own two feet and represent your self and your piano studio.

A necessity in piano teaching! Establish your authoriy if and when needed. It can be done without raising your voice or getting upset which is the least effective thing you could do. Learn to put on your "this is serious" face and expect that you will get the response needed to solve the problem. Cause and effect - problem and resolution - speak logically and factually.

Carry a big stick?

This was a very isolated situation. I did know this mother socialyand was aware of the disfunction but didn't think it would be THIS bad. This mother had a lot of trouble with her children's schools. The most amazing part was how the mother made excuses for their behavior. She told me "kids tease, that is what they do." She is actually a teacher!

All this occurred over four weeks. The trouble started the second week, I talked to the mom and immediately insisted that she not leave all the girls. The next week she dropped off and picked up. It was that lesson that the tools were broken in the van as the mother and I talked in the house. When she came back for the fourth lesson and I confronted about the tools, it was over.

That was a long time for those girls to be in my house. I do have a family of four that are all dropped off at my house. The mother is a pediatrician (child development background) and the kids are very well behaved. The three girls read books or do homework. The boy plays football or play station with my kids. They have become very good friends.

When all my boys were younger I brought in a baby sitter. With four boys it was cheaper to pay minimum wage to a high school student then sending them all to daycare. That is another reason why I don’t allow makeup or non payment for lessons missed. I was paying a babysitter.

Last year, when my youngest turned four, I gave my boys the option of babysitting their brother. They each take a day and their job is to entertain him. That has also worked very well this last year and the boys earn an allowance. The only problem has been that I insist they entertain Gabe at all cost and he has become a little spoiled. Gabe is also at the age that he enjoys following his brothers around and playing sports in the yard. It has worked out very well but development stages change and if it stops working I have the option of paying my mother-in-law to watch my youngest.

It does help that my studio is in a front room next to the formal living room and the rest of the family living space is out of sight. Even in that situation, it is unfair that my children’s home is also my work place and they are expected to always be on their best behavior.

I am not a piano teacher, but since I've had rigorous piano training, I've taken on a few students in the past in order to bolster my monetary situation as an undergrad and then grad student (not in music, though). Anyway, when I was 19, I had this couple in their mid 30s bring in their two daughters, if I recall correctly, 5 and 7. I told them that the 5 year old might be a tad too young and unfocused but we wanted to give it a try. When they came in, the youngest had a cold and in the ensuing lesson besmirched the keyboard of my then new Seiler grand with her snot (trying to play and digging her nose). I am sure the girl meant no evil. She was just too young. After the lesson, I spent some time cleaning and sanitizing the keyboard. It was gross. I had just received that grand two months earlier and I guarded it closely. It was a shock to see secretion on it. We established quickly that the girl was too young and unfocused and I was glad that they decided not to pursue lessons at that juncture.
I also had a student who had extremely sweaty fingers. After every session the keyboard was literally wet. Not very pleasant, I tell you. I am glad that except for my girlfriend and a duo music partner who I really relish nobody has touched my piano since.

Mrs. A: sounds like a good set up you have there. Since no mention was made of it, I assumed that these kids were allowed to harass your son unsupervised, but I can understand how your older boys wouldn't necessarily know how to react. No offense or "judgment" was intended, so I hope you didn't take offense at that suggestion.

Isn't it just awful that because of the mother's inability (and father's if he's even in the picture) to discipline their children, no one wants to be around their little darlings? How sad for the children, and what a terrible shock it will be when they get older and realize that not everyone is going to put up with them doing whatever they please. The book of Proverbs puts it best, "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him," and "A wise son brings joy to his father, but a foolish son grief to his mother."

No I wasn't offended at all. After I read my post it sounded defensive but it wasn't supposed to be. I was just commenting back.

These girls tormented my son in front of the brothers. My eldest was going to come to blows with these girls. I am glad the boys kept their cool but they wouldn't have for long. It is all very funny now but I do feel for these girls and worry about their future.

I have a friend who had a student vomit on the keys of her piano. She bought a new piano.

Apparently, a lot more than their actual parents ever did. What a shame. If they don't set limits for them, a court bailiff will be doing so in ten years time.

I wonder if this would be covered under insurance?

That's exactly what I was thinking. They may have to check in with their parole officer before going to prom...

Mrs. A, that is the most appalling 'bratty kids' story I have seen in a while.

As long as we are getting yucky here,
Several years ago, a then 10 year old student of mine urinated, and I mean flooded, my piano bench, rug underneath, and pedals during her lesson. Afterwards, her mother told me she had no bladder control. No, I didn't replace anything but did hire a professional to clean the rug

Afterwards?

Nice of her to warn you.