Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
48 registered members (Beemer, BachToTheFuture, cmb13, amad23, ChatNoir, 11 invisible), 1,561 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1247702 - 08/12/09 02:23 AM Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit?  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
I'm searching for a piano teacher for my children, and when I ask teachers in my area whether they prepare their students for examinations such as the ABRSM, RCM, or NMCP programs, several teachers told me they only prepare students for the California Certificate of Merit. No one was familiar with ABRSM, RCM, or NMCP.

I am looking for some opinion on the CM program. Does it serve the same purpose as other national programs? Is it recognized by universities in my area (UC Berkeley, Stanford, etc)? Is there a disadvantage in enrolling students into a California state program rather than a national one? Does achieving Grade 8 in the CM program indicates the same accomplishments as Grade 8 in RCM/NMCP or ABRSM?

My preference is for the children is enroll in a national program (preferably internationally recognized) rather than a state based one; is that misguided?

Thanks for your comments/opinions.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1247760 - 08/12/09 07:42 AM Re: Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Kreisler Offline
Kreisler  Offline


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
CM uses the same syllabus as RCM. We have some users here who live in California who should be able to give you some more information.

Paging AZN... laugh


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
#1247958 - 08/12/09 01:47 PM Re: Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit? [Re: Kreisler]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,269
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member
dumdumdiddle  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,269
California
Certificate of Merit is MTAC's big evaluation held every spring. I don't know how it compares with RCM or ABRSM, but several music publishers make a great effort to level their music to coincide with CM levels.

The program consists of technique, repertoire, sight reading, ear training, optional improvisation, and a written theory exam. Students who complete thru level 9 or Advanced will many times test out of first year college music theory.

It's a challenging program and not all of my students will participate. I have more students do Guild than do CM (but all of my CM students will do Guild).

My understanding is that many teachers outside of California have used the CM syllabus and materials for their own studios.


Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild
#1247989 - 08/12/09 03:16 PM Re: Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit? [Re: dumdumdiddle]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,094
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,094
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by dumdumdiddle
Students who complete thru level 9 or Advanced will many times test out of first year college music theory.


That is exactly what I did. I passed CM Level Advanced in high school then passed the college theory placement test with flying colors. However, CM is not completely aligned with the college theory requirements. For example, there is no dictation or composition (4-part writing and voice leading). There are some concepts that may or may not be covered in first-year theory (Neapolitan chord, augmented 6th chords) that CM doesn't touch. CM barely touches modes and serialism. And the ear training portion is a joke. So, all through second-year theory in college, I kept looking back to teach myself the stuff I skipped.

In my opinion, kids who blaze through CM should also take AP Music Theory in high school in order to get a complete musical training.

I don't know about other states, but here in California EVERY college knows about CM. Each year, they receive thousands of applications with CM level somewhere in the paperwork. It has become a "keeping up with the Joneses" of music achievement.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
#1248273 - 08/13/09 06:26 AM Re: Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit? [Re: AZNpiano]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
Thanks for the feedback. If I understand it correctly, its really the only system in California, and ends up being highly competitive among teachers, students, and parents. I just want to the kids to have some sort of incentive and goal, and might as well get some credit for putting in all the effort. I just feel some form of objective evaluation is helpful in providing a metric for their efforts.

I almost feel that we should do something completely different like the NMCP so there isn't so much competitive comparison with their peers with their Advance CM, AP classes, Eagle Scout, 4.3 GPA, 2100 SAT, varsity sports and on and on (our oldest is entering Berkeley in the Fall, so we just went through all that exhausting non-sense). I think it's kind of hopeless as it seem difficult in finding a teacher who does NMCP or ABRSM instead of CM in California.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
#1248376 - 08/13/09 10:23 AM Re: Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 559
childofparadise2002 Offline
500 Post Club Member
childofparadise2002  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 559
I'm a parent and an adult student, not a teacher. But from what I know, I find it hard to believe that it's so hard to do ABRSM, NMCP and things other than CM. My child did ABRSM in California, and that was the preferred exam of his music school. I also know another music school nearby which also preferred ABRSM. I actually didn't know there is a CM. Maybe it depends on your location, but if you really want to, asking around a bit more might give you more options.

#1248379 - 08/13/09 10:26 AM Re: Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,269
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member
dumdumdiddle  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,269
California
Originally Posted by 4evrBeginR
Thanks for the feedback. If I understand it correctly, its really the only system in California, and ends up being highly competitive among teachers, students, and parents.


I wouldn't really say that. The students aren't competing against each other but rather a standard (like Guild). CM is a wonderful comprehensive program for both students and teachers. It gives both a goal to attain. There are additional competitions and evaluations students can enter that ARE competitive.

The various MTAC branches in California have their own personality. I've heard of branches in the Bay Area and in LA where there's always competition amongst teachers, not just CM but other things; our branch is smaller and we don't seem to have that problem.


Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild
#1248408 - 08/13/09 11:11 AM Re: Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit? [Re: dumdumdiddle]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,094
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,094
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by dumdumdiddle
The various MTAC branches in California have their own personality. I've heard of branches in the Bay Area and in LA where there's always competition amongst teachers, not just CM but other things

[Linked Image]

I call it "turf war." The only way to get ahead is by stepping on other people.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
#1248889 - 08/14/09 01:26 AM Re: Have you heard of California Certificate of Merit? [Re: childofparadise2002]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
Originally Posted by childofparadise2002
I'm a parent and an adult student, not a teacher. But from what I know, I find it hard to believe that it's so hard to do ABRSM, NMCP and things other than CM. My child did ABRSM in California, and that was the preferred exam of his music school. I also know another music school nearby which also preferred ABRSM. I actually didn't know there is a CM. Maybe it depends on your location, but if you really want to, asking around a bit more might give you more options.


There are ABRSM teachers in the major cities San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, but we live far away from the cities, so it would be tough, especially with traffic near these cities in grindlock all the time. I will ask around though.

I contacted our local NMCP exam center contact and found out there is no NMCP teacher in my area. The NMCP contact told me there is a shortage of teachers in the program. The closest one is in Berkeley, depending on traffic that could mean 40 minutes or 1.5 hours away.

We'll keep our options open and get informed as much as possible (which Piano World is a wonderful resource). All the programs have their pros and cons it seems.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Blanking out randomly?
by luckiest_charm. 06/24/17 04:44 AM
Peter Bence Arrangements
by Groove On. 06/24/17 04:40 AM
Software Piano Comparison at KVRAudio
by Joe Garfield. 06/24/17 01:50 AM
Curious, how often do you play on an acoustic?
by Gombessa. 06/23/17 09:25 PM
How about those spinets?
by RonTuner. 06/23/17 06:46 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics180,419
Posts2,638,570
Members88,169
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Check It Out!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0