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Hi all,

I learnt classical piano for a long while when I was young, I've since let the skills drop away a bit, but I've recently started jazz piano lessons, and am really excited and motivated about it, have been practising every day etc

The teacher I'm going to plays both blues and jazz (both professionaly at gigs, as well as teaching). I think she probbaly plays/focuses more on blues in her gigs/band etc.

She said that the best approach to learning jazz is to start with blues techniques & methodologies, before moving into more jazz type stuff. So I've been going over blues songs and techniques to build up those fundamtentals so far.

I guess my question is simply this - is this a common, or good way to proceed? Teachers - is that how you teach? Or Jazz players, is that how you learnt? I want to ensure the path I'm taking is the most direct. I'm keen to get into jazz as soon as possible, and I'm wondering if this is the best, most logical, most common approach, or whether I should seek out a 100% pure jazz teacher (if that exists)?

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Manachi

Blues is much simpler, so it's a good place to start if you don't know blues or jazz.

Well, playing blues and jazz piano for more years than I can recall, both styles of music go hand in hand. There are several distinctive blues styles and numerous jazz styles, bebop, pentatonic, smooth jazz, acid jazz, swing, fusion, the list keeps growing.

Many blues and jazz chord progressions are based on I-IV-V or I-VI-II-V-I harmony. But many pianists that are known for playing blues may not be jazz oriented and vice versa. In other words, it would be unlikely to hear a jazz pianist like Chick Corea or McCoy Tyner, Keith Jarrett who have very modern jazz styles playing with groups similar to Stevie Ray Vaughn, Robert Cray, BB King, along this lane, but if they chose to play with groups like this, they certainly could adapt with their ear and improvisational skills. And great blues/rock keyboardists like Reese Wynans, Chuck Leavell, Lee Michaels, Roy Bittan would unlikely be involved playing with groups such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Dizzy Gillespie. Of course there are always modifications and exceptions to any situation.

IMHO, I would stick with a teacher who could help you with traditional blues styles and then move into the various jazz vocabulary as you progress. There are really not many shortcuts to learning the art other than passion, patience, and hard work.

Good luck on your path
katt

I personally don't see a great deal
of difference between classical, blues,
jazz, etc. In fact, you should always
be returning to classical for
techniques and sounds that you can
use in jazz, or blues, etc.

Furthermore, what you should be doing,
in my view, is developing your own
style of non-classical playing, not
stictly a blues or jazz or anything
else style, but your own way of playing,
something that fits your individual
tastes and interests, and which
expresses what you want to express at
the piano. If you try to imitate
the jazz greats, I think that you
will eventually find this to be very
unsatisfying, because you're trying
to copy their individual style, that
they developed to suit their unique
tastes and interests. You want
your own style.

The way you develop this, in my view,
is basically to start improvising
on your own: start pounding stuff
out on the piano, by ear. Initially,
you'll be using some of what you've
learned from the jazz lessons, but
eventually you'll home in on your
own way of playing, where all that
classical, blues, jazz, etc., instruction
comes together in your own unique
way of playing. But you need to
start improvising on your own,
because that's where you develop this.

I start every new adult student on the blues right away - they all enjoy it! We start listening to recordings of 12-bar tunes and playing along with them, developing their ears for the basic blues progression.
Besides being fun to play, you can start using Jazz voicing, substitution, and bring the III, VI, II, V7, I sequences and their variations in as well.
You might laugh, but we also jazz-up simple Xmas songs as well to start, because the melody and chords are already so ingrained that it's easier to start messing with them.

You bring some interesting and valid points. I would guess most musicians of every level aspire to develop a unique style, and eventually a conscious effort to strive for originality has to be seriously considered.

However when you start to study a style might not be the time to do it. You have to walk before you run. To create something original, but actually good, there is a certain level of technique and musical knowledge required. Unless a person has an exceptional talent (Mozart like, not just a decent ear) I don’t think is realistic to expect someone to come up with music that is good AND original in any style, much less in something as complex as jazz, without proper knowledge of the music and detailed study of some of its exponents.

There is nothing wrong in studying other musicians you like. Learn their signature licks, their phrasing, their tendencies, etc. Just about every great pianist this century had strong influences, people they imitated, at least for a while. Creativity comes later.

There is no clear line drawn between blues and jazz. There is a lot of overlap in the vocabulary. I believe that the blues is a good place to start improvising because it is accessible and can be done simply. I also believe that any teacher who gives a student actual sheet music of "the blues" is doing that student a disservice. It is not a written music.

Right on...Blues is "caught" rather than "taught"...you have to internalize it before you can play it. Books can only show you the chord change format, and perhaps a lick or two.

There is a school of blues players that evolved into great jazz players Oscar Peterson,Gene Harris,Monty Alexander,Ray Bryant etc.
Learning to improvise makes sense to start out with the blues in it's simplicity. Though if you notice there are blues players that play the blues than there are jazz players that take it much further harmonicaly and technically playing that same 12 bar blues.The most important thing one learns in improvising the blues is the "feel".I like that "Blues is caught rather than taught. I guess it helps to have the blues to play the blues. "Alot of piano dealers are playing the blues from the heart.

Now it is quite possible for one to play jazz and not have a blues foundation. Making that transition from classical to blues for many can be tuff because you never leaned to play in the street being down and out and destitute. Now many greats like Oscar had that "feel thing instilled from playing gospel in the church. I don't think Oscar ever giged with John Lee Hooker.

Now the next pianist I see solely improvising off that "blues scale" I'm gonna strangle.

P.S. Gene Harris was musical director and pianist for BB King for years I believe

Having played and toured with the greatest of blues guitarists,I found they like the idea of playing againest a jazz player playing the blues.

lol!

You live in Hollywood? I'm probably safe enough here.

Part two;
Musicians and students learn to improvise or asimulate info as a basis of improvisation /musical vocabulary, differently. To study the masters is a very valid foundation in learning to play. Many would not have a clue without some basis or rules or regiment to follow initially. Though once you know all the rules,that is when you break them. If you don't you will sound like everybody else,which isn't really all that bad.

Back to the original issue.I knew a guy who could play McCoy better than McCoy but couldn't play anything else much less the blues.

Playing a transcription of a blues solo is a pretty lame experience.So...if you want to play the blues,move into that rooming house on the south side of ? with the local blues piano player and experiece the real thing.