Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
92 registered members (Agent88, Bambers, 36251, antzvu, anotherscott, AZ_Astro, 23 invisible), 909 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1246736 - 08/10/09 01:09 PM Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500)  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
It Netian Offline
Junior Member
It Netian  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
Hi,
I'm looking around for a piano, and saw the following ads for refurbished yamaha U3.

Year built range: 1975 - 1986
Price range: $2,700 - $3,500 US dollar.
Refurbished year: 2009.

These are the so called 'gray market'.

I was wondering if it is a good idea to buy those. Please help. Your opinions are highly appreciated.

For details of the ads:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/msg/1313835283.html

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1246862 - 08/10/09 05:12 PM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: It Netian]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 674
Kurtmen Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kurtmen  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 674
San Mateo, CA
These prices are too high for such old pianos. These pianos are not completely refurbished.
They have been cleaned up and barely restored for a fast sell.
The reason why I said the prices are too high; is because they go for closer to 60% to 70% of the cost of a New piano by the same manufacturer or similar.
I don't see anybody paying near 50% of the new cost for a 20 to 30 years old Toyota car or brand name furniture. Why would you do that with a piano?
A truly rebuilt Steinway can be worth 80% of the cost of a new one; but not a Yamaha or Kawai.
If the pianos are in good shape after you had a technician checked the piano, I will said $2000 is not a fantastic deal but fair/reasonable and worth it.
On the other hand there are so many other GREAT pianos, besides Kawai or Yamaha which are sold new for $3500. Zero worries, new technology and design. Besides that they come with manufacturer's warranty; instead of a comfort warranty from some obscure dealer on craigslist.
Best Regards,

Last edited by Kurtmen; 08/10/09 05:21 PM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com
#1246866 - 08/10/09 05:25 PM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: Kurtmen]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,878
Steve Cohen Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,878
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted by Kurtmen
These prices are too high for such old pianos. These pianos are not completely refurbished.
They have been cleaned up and barely restored for a fast sell.
The reason why I said the prices are too high; is because they go for closer to 60% to 70% of the cost of a New piano by the same manufacturer or similar.
I don't see anybody paying not even 50% of the new cost for 20 to 30 years old Toyota car or brand name furniture.
A truly rebuilt Steinway can be worth 80% of the cost of a new one; but not a Yamaha or Kawai.
If the pianos are in good shape after you had a technician checked the piano, I will said $2000 to $2500 is not a fantastic deal but reasonable and worth it.
On the other hand there are so many other GREAT pianos, esides Kawai or Yamaha which are sold new for $3500. Zero worries, new technology and design. Besides that they come with manufacturers warranty; instead of a comfort warranty from some obscure dealer on craigslist.


Kurtmen, I think you may be way off here.

Some grey market pianos ARE completely refurbished with new pins, strings, hammers and more. While it is true that some grey market pianos are as you describe, many are not.

Also, your pricing scenario is way off as well. The prices you suggest ($2000-$2500) are less than the wholesale price w/freight of grey market pianos. As a dealership, you should know the costs of these instruments, so I must conclude that your intent is to mislead.

I know that you compete agaist greys, but that doesn't justify your response.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
#1246878 - 08/10/09 05:54 PM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: Steve Cohen]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 674
Kurtmen Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kurtmen  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 674
San Mateo, CA
Steve is completely justified.
You know our market and how much people are paying for U1 and U3 around here. Why buy the used piano when for a couple or few thousand more, you can buy a new one and keep it for the next twenty years.
On the other hand for $3500 you can buy a new 48" by many of the other makers and perhaps serve the purpose better.
Including some models built by SMC.
Don't you think?

Honestly. I've never heard of a full rebuilt on Yamahas that are sold FOR $2700 to $3500 to the public.
Since You are very certain: PLEASE ENLIGHT US AND TELL US THE NAME OF THE FACTORY WHERE THESE "2009 FACTORY REBUILT PIANOS" HAVE BEEN RE-DONE. AND THE NAME U.S. DISTRIBUTOR.


Last edited by Kurtmen; 08/10/09 06:30 PM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1246908 - 08/10/09 06:57 PM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: Kurtmen]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,878
Steve Cohen Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,878
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Who said a "full rebuilt on Yamahas that are sold FOR $2700 to $3500 to the public"?

You said "These pianos are not completely refurbished. They have been cleaned up and barely restored for a fast sell".

In my experience the amount and quality of work done on grey market piano varies considerably. How do you know that the pianos being referred to by the OP are as you describe?


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
#1246958 - 08/10/09 09:03 PM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: Steve Cohen]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Marty Flinn  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
It Netian,

Please use the search function on this forum for "Gray Market" and "Grey Market". You will read a variety of opinions on this vast body of product available in most markets.

There is much issue with the term "refurbished". There is no standard definition in the industry. It can be a little as a good dustin' and cleanin', and as much as new strings and hammers. I have been exposed to hundreds of Gray Market pianos over the years in a variety of settings. In my experience, most are all original parts with cabinets and brass polished to look new and hammers filed to look new.

I can guarantee that you will not be finding a U3 with new hammers and strings for $2700. That's for sure.


Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.
#1246967 - 08/10/09 09:26 PM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: Marty Flinn]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,878
Steve Cohen Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,878
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted by Marty Flinn

I can guarantee that you will not be finding a U3 with new hammers and strings for $2700. That's for sure.


I couldn't agree more.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
#1246968 - 08/10/09 09:26 PM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: Steve Cohen]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 674
Kurtmen Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kurtmen  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 674
San Mateo, CA
Steve my point is that I doubted those pianos advertised on that *particular craigslist ad* have more than just a cleaned up and a light restoring job.
However since you took an opposite position to mine and you said that my opinion is some how misleading.

I want you to clarify and tell us about the source of the pianos. They claimed that they are Factory Refurbished.
Again:
Who is the factory? and Distributor?

IMO without any additional information it is safer for the consumer to look at different options and be skeptical. If the pianos are checked by an independent tech and they are in good shape, then by industry standards a 20% discount to the asking price is reasonable, since they have been offered by a dealer and not an individual.
I think my advise is prudent and reasonable.
Unless you can providing him with information that will guarantee to him/her that this is a safe purchase and a good deal.

Last edited by Kurtmen; 08/10/09 09:47 PM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com
#1247489 - 08/11/09 08:12 PM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: Kurtmen]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
It Netian Offline
Junior Member
It Netian  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
Thank you all. Your reply educated me a lot about the gray market pianos.

#1247704 - 08/12/09 02:28 AM Re: Refurbished Yamaha U3 (1975-1986: $2,700-$3,500) [Re: It Netian]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member
pianobroker  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
North Hollywood CA.
Actually most gray market pianos in the states are minimally refurbished wherever and sold via the many Japanese wholesale and trade co.

There are operations that actually do a more comprehensive R&R refurbishment/restoration on these Yamaha and Kawais.
They are usually the REALLY OLD ones whereas the company acquired them for very little yen or $0 and could actually do a production restoration type operation on these ancient artifacts and still make $. I never cared for the ones I've seen. Oh well.they do exist!
So...in conclusion one could actually acquire a restored 40 year old U3G for $2700 wholesale if thats what you want. wink

Last edited by pianobroker; 08/12/09 02:30 AM.

www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
European Piano Party 2018 in Germany?
by patH. 10/18/17 05:26 PM
Home made tape deck Electone - awesome!
by Doug M.. 10/18/17 04:15 PM
Best computer based learning program...?
by Pologuy. 10/18/17 02:41 PM
VIII Piano Composition Competition Fidelio via Internet
by fideliovconcurso. 10/18/17 02:23 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,366
Posts2,665,540
Members88,990
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0