Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Estonia 190 vs. Shigeru Kawai SK-2

*Sorry Norbert.. *


No pushing or shoving please....

Norbert

Hey newguy,

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood your post. I apologize if that's the case.

Sincerely,

Bear

Sorry Norbert. It was late at night

Wadslee said,
To that end, the Estonia dealer, Rick Baldassin, offered to personally refine the L190 to a much higher level—one that would “exceed that of the Shigeru and potentially match or exceed that of a NWS Schimmel.” (which brand he also represents in addition to Fazioli) As offered, this would not be an average dealer preparation, but rather a multi day effort, using every technique & trick in the book to elevate and refine the Estonia to a much higher level. (while keeping the tone “as is.”) I jokingly asked if we could “convert the Audi into a Lamborghini”…to which he quickly replied “oh yea!”

Did you ever consider getting the NWS 189 Schimmel? The tone quality is excellent, certainly different than the Estonia, Kawai and Shigeru Kawaii. The workmanship is fantastic on this special edition as well. It also sounds like Rick Baldassin was trying to refine the Estonia to reach a NWS or Shigeru. Why not get the real thing? ... if price point isn't the deciding factor.

As a follow up I did get in touch with Rich at Cunningham Piano with the name of the church, the name of the music director and the name of the sound guy — as well as the address, phone number and the date I had the conversation.

I also stated the following in my email to Rich:

Since I brought up the question of this particular church with two of the people (the music director and one of the sound guys) from the church expressing concerns about the decision that was made to purchase an Estonia, I thought it only fair to give Rich the contact information of the church. This is a church that is a customer of his so they already have an established relationship. I gave this information to Rich on Saturday 11/30/08.

I encouraged Rich to report back on the list as to how the concern was resolved, since I brought it up and so there could be some "closure" to the question that I brought up.

Rich is a good guy and I know that Cunningham's stands by any problems that customers may encounter that may come up with an Estonia piano.

As asked, my service people have followed up with the customer in question. There are now new people in charge of the music and sound and they desire to keep the piano in it's best condition. (They haven't even tuned it this year yet. yeesh!)

They bought this piano in 2003 and our records show that they intended to use their own technician for service. This was where the error came into play. Apparently changes in staff meant that there was no "regular tech." anymore.

We've set up a time to meet with 2 of the major players and educate them on how it is best to move forward. Thank you Glenn for the help. This piano could have wound up being an embarrassment.

sammy1 wrote:
I did consider the K189, but it was more than I wanted to spend--about 50% more. One of the appeals of the Estonia for me is the ability to extract additional performance. Overall, it appears to offer the greatest "bang to buck" ratio, particularly with further refinement. I also like the tone.

Dont' get me wrong, the Schimmel Konzert is an amazing instrument too--just a tad bit over priced IMO.

I like the Estonia tone, it was just the refinement in the action that was "lacking." (which term is entirely relative) I used "NWS Schimmel" and "Shigeru" to describe a level of action refinement that I thought others would understand.

Thanks for the reply!

Bear,

In an attempt to make a good piano purchase decision, I've done a bit of research on this statement and have drawn some conclusions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I interpret your statement as saying a Shigeru Kawai has a decided advantage over other similar quality piano makers because the person doing the in-home refinements is the exact same as 'the' person who hand built the piano. The statement asserts, without evidence, that only such a person is capable of extracting the full performance potential of the instrument. Also from a consumer's perspective, this statement seems to imply that there is only one person building the piano. It conjures images of a master artisan like Leonardo Da Vinci, huddled over his masterpiece.

First, a Shigeru Kawai is not built entirely by one person alone. It is a collaborative effort. While it may be true that a Kawai MPA is assigned to each instrument, it's also true that many components, including actions and hammers are made by groups of people in different departments or even factories.

Second, as I understand it, the particular Kawai MPA that is assigned to each piano may or may not be the actual MPA that flies to the US anyway. I was told by the local dealer that they took turns.

Third, if nobody could end user tweak a piano better than 'the' person that actually hand built the piano, how would you explain a NY Steinway? Certainly there are independent technicians that can refine a Steinway far beyond the dismal in-factory prep work that Steinway is putting out these days. Any S&S dealers out there disagree?

Fourth, the statement implies that the best technicians in the world work exclusively for the manufacturers--hence nobody else can compare.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your replies. You have been very helpful. I just have a little trouble with this small statement.

waiting to hear what Bear has to say.

Lol, apple is loving this.

Time to slice and dice

Glad I read through the posts before posting, because that is exactly what I was going to suggest. For me, touch is no longer a critical issue in choosing a piano. One can adjust to that. Control IS critical, especially at the ppp end. Tone is important too.

Bear cares.
Wadslee, enjoy your new piano. It will be lovely.

Thank you sammy1,

Best to all,

Bear

Wadslee,

Have you purchased your piano as yet? Which one did you get? Keep us informed.

Bear1,

If I'm staying in the US, I would consider a SK7 delivered from you

Kawai US has excellent service/support; that makes me want to be American :p

Just had a 2nd tuning, some minor problems fixed. The piano is singing and humming along beautifully. My tuner is a fine player and keeps telling me what a beautiful instrument is the Estonia L190. I can't recommend it often enough. The piano's rich warm sounds are consistent along the entire spectrum of sound possibilities, and those tones from the bass and tremble, whew! It's a powerful instrument and just perhaps deserves its own tier others should aspire to.

I hardly comment on Estonia here anymore.

Because when I said something simliar as the above some 14 years ago, people thought a I was nuts.

Nice to see others are increasingly becoming too.

Their case however, may not be quite as serious.

It's sure as heck's taking them a much longer time to get there....

Norbert

So you were right, I've learned not to doubt it.
What is on the horizon? I just googled and found an article claiming that Estonia is the new Steinway; an interesting comparison.

The difference being, I'll bet, is that Estonia will not be content to rest on their laurels.

Estonia is Estonia.

It doesn't need a comparison to Steinway as much as Bluethner,Steingraeber, Sauter,Grotrian, Shigeru or any others need one.

All these pianos have slightly different identities, are beautiful within their own rights and add to the variety of wonderful instruments out there.

Back to Christmas dinner now... er desert....

Norbert