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Enough with the hyperbole? You mean the

THIS WEEKEND ONLY (and every weekend after that)

GARGANTUAN SALE (complete with 30 foot blow-up gorilla in the parking lot

PRICES SLASHED

THOUSANDS BELOW MSRP

YOU WILL NEVER GET A BETTER CHANCE TO BUY

hyperbole? That leaves you expecting to see the salesman with the slicked back hair and the lime green leisure suit?

Then, yeah, I'd say enough with that.

I have no problem with the fact that dealerships need to make an honest profit to stay in business. It's how they go about convincing me that I am getting a fair price, that's in question. As it was in question from the *other 2 posters* I quoted earlier. We were all given an unpleasant impression by cheap sales tactics.

As a business owner, you can learn from that, or you can be offended and become insulting to (or in sight of, if you don't consider me a potential customer) a potential customer.

I have always heard that it's a poor business practice to insult customers....

double clicked

Lest we forget:

from Webster:
Free market: One in which any individual may exchange their products or services by competitive bidding, open to all, without constraint.

So, next time you go to Safeway, be sure to negotiate the price of that Chicken. Then check with Ori to make sure it's Organic and Free Range.

HA!
You know, sometimes I long for the "old days" when Irving would get in the middle of something like this and say "That guy needs to spend more time selling pianos and less time on the forum".

P.S. Of course I was talking about Ori, not Marty.

Considering the industry still does this, I wonder truly what percentage of buyers are:

1 - as yourself and a few other here, genuinely put off by this enough to not purchase
2 - are annoyed/confused but don't see it as a show stopper
3 - don't care
4 - actually feel that they're getting a good deal due to the "inflated" msrp

If enough folks fall into category 1, then one would think that this policy as a prevalent tactic will, by survival of the fittest, eventual go away. I would hazard to guess though that the overwhelming majority fall into the other categories which generally wouldn't give many manufs/dealers a compelling reason to change (not of course that many dealers can change what the manufs are calling msrp anyway).

It is poor practice to insult a customer but in this case, you are not a customer, you're a person responding on a forum and really, I didn't insult you personally, just your language.

The MSRP probably exists because it allows vendors to sell to people like me who don't seem to possess the "negotiation gene". I always seem to pay the list price for EVERYTHING (including cars) either because I have an inherent trust in people or because I feel I'll be insulting the salesman by asking for a lower price. It doesn't seem to matter whether I know what the fair price is or not. It's true, nice guys do finish last...

An approach that I used was to look at the retail price of a used one or two year old piano of the same brand and model in excellent condition. I then looked for any changes or improvements and added back a reasonable depreciation to arrive at the price I would pay for a new piano. If all the dealers were selling at a significantly higher price then I knew that there was significant depreciation (which in itself is problematic) and I should purchase the used one. The key to this approach is to be able to find one or more used excellent condition pianos.

I'm not sure if this would be a game the dealer plays or what but, no kidding, i was in the bathroom at the dealership after just speaking with the dealer and trying to work a deal for me to tune SOME of the pianos in the store and see if those might sell faster(the store already has a tech, but i simply wanted to test this out) Anyway, i'm sittin' down and the dealer comes in and stands at the urinal and i see its him 'cause i know what his shoe's look like. And also there wasn't anyone else in the store(quite common for piano stores around here). He flushes the urinal which was impressive, but left right after zipping his pants back up. no stop at the sink.NO STOP AT THE SINK I REPEAT!!!!! This is a person who shakes hands with customers, puts his FINGERS on the KEYS of the KEYBOARD to play for the customers and THEN, the customer gets to try it!AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......i know i'm being silly. but honestly dude. WASH YER DANG HANDS!!!!..........is that a game dealers play?

Anson Everitt
PTG associate

What will those dealers think of next?

Ok, and you posted this....why? Sheesh! Now because of something you observed in a bathroom in Utah, all piano dealers don't wash their hands?

...we stay up night after night trying to think up things like this because we have nothing better to do...

I'm with you on this, Nancy--what a silly post from Anson Everitt. It reflects a certain degeneration in the tone of this thread, which, in my view, has lost whatever minimal interest it may have had five pages ago.

There's always significant depreciation, especially in the first few years. It's not problematic, it's just the way it works with all pianos. The only "reasonable depreciation" is what people are willing to pay. But I think the sharp depreciaiton in the very beginning could be a good reason for buying a piano that is only a few years old.

I actually fall into category 2 more than category 1...for the pricing part of dealer behavior, anyway. I am put off by emphasis on "deep discounts from MSRP" because any consumer who's paying attention can tell that if this is going on in every dealership, at all times, the MSRP is grossly inflated an not expected to be the actual selling price.

If *other* behaviors give me red flags about whether the dealer can be trusted for any potential problems or warranty issues after the fact, even then I might still buy, depending on my opinion of the manufacturer...but it would have to be a very, very, very good price.

I may not be "average" because I grew up in a very rural area where families know each other for generations. The local banker is the grandson of the banker who my grandfather dealt with. My father dealt with the son and now the grandson. Farmers (including my husband and his family) do business deals of tens of thousands of dollars on a handshake (lots of money but no profit, unfortunately). Businesspeople who have a reputation for using misrepresentation or any kind of tactics to "fool" a customer quickly develop a bad reputation and are not likely to thrive.

I would guess that buyers who have made any effort at all to learn about pianos know that there ARE some pianos who are TRULY in the $XX,XXX range. A lower tier piano that has an MSRP price thousands of dollars over the actual expected sale price gives the impression trying to misrepresent themselves as being a higher priced (thus better quality) instrument than they actually are. This is so unnecessary.

The only difference is that you can post prices online about kitchen equipment, pool tables, airplanes, boats, and other big ticket items without Mr. Marty Flinn coming out on the forum throwing a fit while criticizing you on the post.

My post may have been silly, true, but going back out and shaking your customers hands after NOT washing is not. Playing a PIANO with wee-hands may or may not be silly, depends on yer point of view. I think its silly. If you, as a dealer care about your customers,..........really...... and NOT just about the $, then i believe you would wash your hands before leaving the loo. insignificant petty detail? depends on your POV. Basis for creating a thriving, successful business?(by successful i don't simply mean scores huge profits),... could be. Could be the foundation. How honest do you feel? how AWESOME does it feel when you shake someone's hand with your dirty hand. i don't like it. i forgot once and i didn't like it. im sure if the customer new they might have a hard time enjoying it. does any of this matter? to some no. to some yes. thank you for sharing how you feel.

Anson Everitt
PTG associate

p.s. i can't imagine all dealers are non-washers. I see most dealers as really up-town. gentleman even. hard work selling pianos and i respect them.

AWESOME THREAD!!!!

Yike! I will never shake hand with a piano dealer again! I will put on surgical gloves when I test drive pianos in a dealership.