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22.7K - 23K for a new C3 is indeed a very feasible price where I live (silicon valley, CA). As some of you might know, the bay area isn't exactly a cheap place to live in

Marty is apparently around LA area (roughly 300 miles south) where pianos for some reasons cost much much more.

Maybe, I should buy some and sell back to Marty and make some profits

"Very feasible in the Bay Area"?

The cost of a new C3 to a dealer in LA is the same as in SF. The whisper thin margin of profit on a sale at $22.7 is not a sustainable level for any business (no matter how lean) to sustain itself. Perhaps a C3 purchased prior to January 09 or even April of 09 might be entertained.

One would have to assume that Koiloco's experience is dated, second hand, or the seller was truly going out of business. One would have to know the specifics behind koiloco's claim. It is always the same with these undocumented claims by those under avatars posting in annominity. Did Koiloco actually buy a new C3 since April 09 at or below $22.7K? I seriously doubt it.

School loan piano? B stock? "Slightly used?" Age dated stock? Trade deal? Real going out of business situation? Dated experience? Some salesman shot him in the foot, out of desparation from the tenth tire kicking expedition, on his way out the door? Koiloco is a relative of the seller? Koiloco is a high profile teacher? Koiloco is a buyer for a large institution? Koiloco has compromising photos of the seller? (just kidding)

Koilco, did I invite you to the party next month? Hey, bring along those compromising photos, would you? I'd say post them, but you never know how the moderators will take that sort of thing. It might get by if there's a piano in the shot...


PS- Marty, I finally had to special-order your book. I gave up trying to find it in bookstores after Barnes & Noble cut their music section in half and replaced it with... what you might call "romance fantasies for teenage readers." Shame on you, B&N!

Looks like it is time to kick some B&N butt again!! When in doubt, Amazon.

That's right; they got the order. Take a lesson, Barnes.

Marty,

I am none of those entities you have mentioned.
I also don't have compromised photos of the sellers.

11 months ago, when I was out shopping for my 2nd grand, the quoted price for a brand new reg. stock C3 was 23K before any negotiation, for a C5 was 3K more. I bought my first grand from this same local Yammie dealer so I know the drill.
About 3,4 months ago, I did call back for a friend interested in a C3/C5 and the prices remained the same.

I do understand where you are coming from and your wish to keep the business going but I have said before, we have conflicting interests when it comes to piano because we sit at opposite sides of the table. I don't wish to throw out misleading prices out there and confuse ppl but i also don't like to see piano buyers paying more than they really should.
I only response to your post that it's not really possible to buy a new C3 for around 23K because I know it's not true.

You have the right to keep the profit margin you wish, but don't pretend and make customers think that your prices and margins are standard.

That's all I'd like to say.

Jeff,
I am changing email and ISP so some stuffs got mixed up but I finally got your inv. I'll do my very best to be there this time. Thx.

I agree. I was shopping for a C3 but eventually went with the RX3. As you know, we both reside in the same area. The low 20's for a brand-new C3 is definately doable in our area. It sounds like Marty gets all stirred up each time a member talks about Yamaha prices online. Members look out for each other, but Marty's obvious intentions are to sell his Yamahas at artifically inflated prices.

FYI, in a private PM, Marty told me that the wholeasle price for a C3 is greater than $20k. If that's true, then the dealers up here make less than $2-3k profit on a C3 sale. Not likely!

And this is coming from someone who bought a Digital Yamaha and paid "Marty's" price.

Even though I'm a Kawai dealer, I think I'll wade into the pond on this one.

Marty is a reputable dealer, and trusted member of the Forum. To intimate otherwise is just wrong.

I'm disappointed to Koiloco posting info from a PM (private message)...aren't they supposed to be private? Tsk, tsk.

As to why the Yamaha(s) in question may be selling at "rock bottom" prices can be for many reasons as have been told and retold by dealers here on the Forum. Old stock, B Stock, the flooring interest is getting out of hand, the reasons go on and on. Some piano dealers will drop their prices just to get the deal, yes, even if they only make a very slim margin.

Please don't assume Marty is over inflating his prices. We all know in this industry its an ongoing issue. If dealers don't hold decent margins, they simply can't stay in business if they only sell pianos.

BTW, Marty, Our B&N doesn't have the book either! They just cut the piano books down in favor of guitar books.

Old stock, excess inventory, dealer eagerness, whatever it may be. The truth of the matter is that a brand-new C3 can be had for the low 20's.. at least in my area. End of story.

Marty -

I got my copy at Borders . . .

"I'm disappointed to Koiloco posting info from a PM (private message)...aren't they supposed to be private? Tsk, tsk."

Nancy, if you were talking about my PM, don't worry--- I posted the invitation to the piano party on this forum a couple of weeks ago. So, it wasn't that private. We've never met (except here), but Koilco is my neighbor, about a mile away. We both have the same piano, and the same tech works on both. Great minds think alike, right?

No, Jeff, my mistake in my earlier post. It was Azipod - my apologies to Koiloco. I don't know where my head was yesterday.

I just agree with Marty's posting that irresponsible postings about pricing which can be due to so many variances, is terribly frustrating for dealers because, as Marty said, it gives shoppers so much misinformation. 'Nuff said. Heading for the kayak this afternoon and a little leisurely paddle down the river.

All pricings of pianos will be up in the air for times to come.
First of all there are fairly major regional-national differences, this according to the simple laws of supply and demand.

It is only logical to assume that areas which are economically depressed do differently than those which are not.

Different product segements also perform quite differently right now: some lines are reported slow while others are hard to keep in stock - or getting supplied.

At no times have consumers had more choices and better chances to negotiate themselves a hot deal.

Some makers resent - even deny this fact, others take full advantage of the situation.

Didn't I once say: "there will be the absolute top makers in one class" - and then "everything else in one big group after"

Looks like we're at this point now -or increasingly so - and the wrangling in the "one big group after" is on in earnest.

Happy slugging!

Norbert

There's nothing irresponsible about posting our own personal experiences. Both Koiloco and I had been offered a new, in-stock C3, priced in the low 20s.

Did we buy it? No, but that doesn't make us unqualified to share our personal shopping experiences.

Can that same price be had today? I have no idea. Things do change with time.

Talking about prices online is no different than members in the car forums discussing about how they received $10k off MSRP the minute that walked into a Chrysler dealership... nor is it any different than your neighbor telling you that he paid $5k over MSRP for his Prius Hybrid.

Any savy buyer of any product will know that true prices will change all the time based on all the conditions we've already talked about on this thread.
But that's up to the buyer to take into consideration. It doesn't give a dealer the right to tell us what to and what not to post.

It sounds like Marty and his friends on this board are more concerned about selling the pianos at their prices than to help them get the best deal.

I've received half dozen of PMs from members who find Marty's behavior questionable. I'm glad Marty has not been talking for a while. He's actually generating a lot of negative advertising for himself by opening his mouth!
It won't take long before all this spread to future buyers in Southern California.

Good luck Marty

Mercy, look what has happend while I was off.

Azipod, I have been a contributing member of this forum for several years. My behavior has been pretty consistent and seldom questioned. I am careful to identify my opinions as such. I regularly take issue with postings that I believe are not factual. I make every effort to make sure the things I write are correct. I am quick to admit when I have been mistaken. I don't tell others what they can and cannot post.

According to your own post, the price you had gotten on a new C3 was 11 months ago. This was prior to two material Yamaha wholesale price increases. You did not share this before. This tidbit is exactly what I was talking about, dated information.

In your most recent post you wrote, "Can that same price be had today? I have no idea. Things do change with time." That is not what you wrote in previous posts. You stated unequivically that a new C3 could be had for $23k. Just in your previous post you wrote, "The truth of the matter is that a brand-new C3 can be had for the low 20's.."

Now you write, "Any savy buyer of any product will know that true prices will change all the time based on all the conditions we've already talked about on this thread. But that's up to the buyer to take into consideration." That is my point, most shoppers and many posters on this forum are not "savy" and take what they read as gospel and try to take it to the bank.

You seem to want to make this some kind of personal thing. It is not from my viewpoint. I have challenged others in similar situations with low pricing claims. Not just you. As I have stated in the past, I have no problem with folks posting what they actually paid, when, and any mitigating details. The problem is that using avitars, and giving no further details, there is not way to ascertain the factual truth in these matters. When I see others post about a deal that I know is below the dealer cost, I have to not only shake my head, but raise the issue again.

If you had posted, "About 11 months ago I was shopping in the Bay Area and a dealer gave me a price of $XX on a new C3. I didn't actually buy the piano, but that is what I was told then." You and I would not be having this exchange. Your posts have been mater of fact and unequivical (until this last one).

Yes, I am concerned with selling pianos. This is what I do. Our pianos are tagged with the real manufacturer MSRP, then sale tagged at discounts substantially greater than are indicated in Larry Fines guide books as industry standard. My company nor I are out to gouge anyone as you have intimated. I have been doing business in Southern California for 35+ years and a good deal of my business comes from referrals from happy satisfied customers.

This stuff is just a hobby for you, a diversion. This is what I do for a living. It is not a game. You can write anything you want behind your cute little avitar (and he his cute, by the way) with immunity. There are material consequences to retailers when there is dated pricing posted without the details.

Will you be posting the PM's from your "half dozen" supporters as you have with mine? And you want to question my behavior?

The posters I have mentioned are not my supporters. They and I have no relationship. The only thing we share in common is the fact that we find your behavior online questionable. Perhaps some of these members may come out sometime in the future and really put you in your place.

Marty, shame on you for trying to limit the content of what we are entitled to post here on the forum. While I understand your position (though not necessarily agreeing with it), you really have no business to tell us what and what not to post. It's important to you that piano buyers are fed with accurate information to avoid unrealistic expectations with price. The same is important to me but I also want them to have an idea what I have received as price quotes in the past. Whether or not our posts actually creates a unrealistic expectation to a buyer is debatable. Some buyers will be savy and some may require some explanation by the dealer. So what? Consumers exchange pricing info all the time. Are you trying to past a law that prohibits consumers from talking about prices about every consumer good out there in the market?? It is not your business to tell other members what you believe is not factual information. We certainly don't complain about you not posting prices, so don't complain about it if we decide to post prices. It's a free forum!

Shame on you again. If I'm not mistaken, weren't you one of those folks who tried to litigate against PianoWorld or some of its members in the past for postings which you found damaging to your business??? Don't start that again! Shame on you Marty!

No doubt that C3 can be had at low 20s.
Even the over price piano dealer in the Northwest suburb of Chicago offered me C3 for $24K. I have not bargained with them yet. My rule of thumb with Yamaha is 40% off of the MSRP. It seems pretty close to the prices that people pay.

A friend of mine bought Yamaha piano twice from a Southern California Yamaha dealer. This particular store sells very reasonably. My only concern is the shipping process. But my friend did not have problem to ship the piano from Southern Calif to Washington DC area. She just called the dealer, and they shipped it to her in DC.

I have been away from this thread for a few days and just checked back in.

Azipod,

Post whatever you like on the forum. I just ask that you give all the details. Your original posts on this thread stated as a fact that C3's could be had for $x price. That implies currently. Later you added the critical information that your experience in shopping was 11 months old. Can you not understand how this is relevant with Yamaha having two price increases during that period?

On 6-30 you posted,"That's the price of a new one (c3)" response to the price $22,700.
On 7-8 you posted, "If it is more than $20k I think it is too much."
On 7-24 you posted "The low 20's for a brand new C3 is definitely doable.."
This is not sharing your shopping experience. This reads more like you are stating a fact. If you posted, "11 months ago in the Bay Area I was quoted under $23k on a C3" we would not be in this now. Can you understand the distinction?
Then on 7-25 you softened, "Can the same price be had today? I have no idea."
On the previous posts you seemed to have a most definite and emphatic idea of current pricing. Then you later admitted that your experience was 11 months old. My beef is not about folks posting pricing and my beef is not with you personally. My beef is about throwing out pricing without the mitigating details.

Enough with the shaming. Next will come the shunning, then the excommunication. I can't bear it.

You are absolutely mistaken. I have never even thought of ligitating anyone on the forum or the forum itself! Are you deliberatly trying to somehow strengthen your position by belittling me?

Ronald,
Yamaha MSRP on a new C3 is $46,999. 40% off would be $28,199. You have gotten a price of $24k out of Chicago and you want to start there with your bargaining. Let us know how that goes.