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Greetings ABF friends,

I’m ashamed of my overwhelming ignorance when it comes to reading music, but I need some help. I’ve been filling in for our substitute church pianist (who is sick), who was supposed to be filling in for our regular church pianist, who is on a two week vacation.

I was able to bluff my way through last Sunday’s song service playing familiar hymns by ear; of course I tried to play them in the actual key they are written in (that I could recognize) for the benefit of the congregation.

In regards to key signitures, here is what I think I know and my question will be blank, hoping someone can fill in the blanks for me and correct me where I’m wrong (which may be everywhere )…

0 flats = C major/G major?
1 flat (Bb) = F major
2 flats (Bb & Eb) = D major?
3 flats (Ab,Bb, & Eb) = Eb major
4 flats (Ab, Bb, Db & Eb) = Ab major
5 flats (Ab, Bb, Db, Eb, & Gb) = ______?
1 sharp (F#) = ________?
2 sharps (C# & F#) = ______? (D major?)

Thanks a bunch!

Rick

0 flats = C major or A minor. I-IV-V = C-F-G in C major
1 flat = F major or D minor. I-IV-V = F-Bb-C in F
2 flats = Bb major or G minor. I-IV-V = Bb-Eb-F
3 flats = Eb major or C minor. I-IV-V = Eb-Ab-Bb
4 flats = Ab major or F minor. I-IV-V = Ab-Db-Eb
5 flats = Db major or Bb minor. I-IV-V = Db-Gb-F
1 sharp = G major or E minor. I-IV-V = G-C-D
2 sharps = D major or B minor. I-IV-V = D-G-A

Someone will probably post a circle of 5ths for you - there's some good graphics that show it, and it's a handy-dandy way of finding key signatures and I-IV-V chords.

You're getting to be a regular gig-er, Rick! Good for you! Baptism by fire

Cathy

0 Flats/sarps C major or A minor
1 Flat= F major or Dm
2 Flats = Bb major or G minor
3 Flats = Eb major or C minor
4 Flats = Ab major or F minor
5 Flats = Db major or Bb minor
1 Sharp = G major or E minor
2 Sharps = D major or B minor

Edit: Well Cathy you beat me. We were both typing at the same time.

More like "great minds"

Say, Rick - wikipedia has a graphic of the circle of fifths on its opening page of its article, here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

Around the outside, clockwise, are the major sharp keys, and counter-clockwise are the major flat keys. Inside the circle are the minor keys. As you can see, everytime you jump a fifth clockwise on the outside you get one more sharp. You can find a lot of other patterns that will be helpful, too.

Keep on gigging -

Cathy

Handy Hints:
If you are Looking at the key signature in the music:

In a key with flats, the next-to-the-last flat = key signature (ie- key signature with Bb-Eb-Ab the key is Eb). This way you just have to remember that one flat, Bb, = F.


In a key with sharps, the key is 1/2 step above the last sharp in the key signature (ie-F#-C# the key is D).

Editd to add: this means that the major keys on what I think of as the "flat side" all have flat in their names, once you get past F...so if you are trying to remember the key signature for a key like G, D, A, E or B...since it doesn't have "flat" as part of the key name you know it's a key with sharps...so you just go down a half step. G=F#, D=F#+C#, A=F#+C#+G#...

This, of course, only works for major keys. I must admit myself that I have a hard time with minors.

Keep trying to add to your knowledge of theory. Music has a structure which makes sense. The trick is getting the explanation that "clicks" so you understand the underlying structure. And don't try to learn too much all at once, because then it gets confusing and overwhelming. Learn theory in small bites and only move on when you are rock solid with the current bite.

Thanks so much, yall!!!

I might actually learn how to play a piano one of these days!! (With your help!:-)

Rick

I play sometimes for church to, also by ear, im more proficient at it than reading music (at the moment). Like you I decided I should learn the keys. When you can read music and play by ear you have a very tasty career at a church - Transpose the hymns to make them lower or higher, Ive yet to try this as I feel the congregation not ready for it. I also play harmonica knowing the keys is very handy for that, as the pianist normally forgets to tell me what key shes playing in, so I look at her hands and figure it out.


C Major = 0 Sharp
G Major = 1 sharp - F#
D Major = 2 sharps C# F#
A Major = 3 Sharps C# F# G#
E Major = 4 Sharps C# D# F# G#
B Major = 5 sharps C# D# F# G# A#
F# Major = 6 sharps C# D# *E#(F)* F# G# A#
C# Major = 7 Sharps (raise every note by by 1 note) All black keys used + C and F. Its normally written as *Db* but if you play be ear.. just remember C#

The more commonly used in older hymns are Flats.

F Major 1 flat - Bb
Bb Major 2 flats Bb Eb
Eb Major 3 flats Bb Eb Ab
Ab Major 4 flats Bb Db Eb Ab

(I havent read up on Db - I dont like Db, - thats why I like C# (It is Db just written differently)

If you have a piece to play that is in Ab and your not comfortable just move it up to A Maj, or down to G major

The only Flat keys I like are in Eb Major -And I love to play that as C minor !

I came across this tutorial and just feel it might be helpful. It is for me.

This one is for Major chords. There are videos for Minor chords and Arpeggios..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kitPHCNuz-s&feature=channel_page

This guy plays really well. He can play piano backward too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43hAZBAW3GE&feature=channel_page


TinyHands

Thanks so much for the most helpful comments and tips! I’m sure this has been mentioned on the ABF before, and I’m sure I read it before; but it just didn’t really sink in at the time. Now it is more relevant to me than before.

Our church has about 250 members and I’m surprised there are not more people there who can play the piano. There are others who play a little, but I guess they don’t want to be put on the spot to play for the rest of the congregation.

Of course, I’ve played special music at our church for many years on my other instruments, and have messed up in front of them before, so it’s no big deal if I hit a rogue note on the piano .

I had an elderly lady to tell me once, after I had played my guitar and sang a special and forgot the lyrics to the song I was performing, what a good job I had done and how much they all enjoyed it. I told her that I had messed up; she said, Ricky, it did us all a world of good to see and hear you mess up. Wow, I must have some kind of charisma!!

Thanks again, everyone! I appreciate you!

Rick

To ProdigalPianist:

Those are great tips, which I often use when students are having a hard time 'getting it'
:-)

For the minor keys, just go down three half steps, to get the relative minor key.

For example, G Major = 1 sharp (F)
Move down three half steps from G, and you land on E
E minor has the same key signature as G Major.

A while back, DragonPianoPlayer recommended Alfred's "The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios, & Cadences" to me. It's a great reference that I would think all pianists would want to have.

Sometimes the congretation cannot sing as written as the notes might be too high, so you need to transpose anyway. If you can play by ear, you have a great asset already.

If you know the C major and 2 flats and 2 sharps, you already have major keys C, D, F, G, and B flat (and the corresponding minors). You can just play in these keys if that is easier for you.

For example, if the song is written in E but it is on a little high side, just play it as D. If it is on a little low side, just play it in F.

Another example, if the song is written in B (a difficult one), just play it as B-flat or C.

Rickster, do you practice sales? When I was taking a music theory course I discovered all sorts of tricks for remembering keys and key signatures. That all fell by the wayside when I started practicing scales. Now I just know what I know.

And good luck at your church performance. You're a real piano player and when I grow up I want to be just like you. :-)

Wow, Gary, thanks for that complement!!

Sometimes I think I can actually play a piano a little and then I’ll hear someone who really knows how to play, like many of you all, or I’ll try to play for our church service, and then I realize I’ve only scratched the surface!

But, I can’t think of anything that I’ve enjoyed learning as much in a very long time!

Thanks again for all the helpful hints and information on key signatures! I’ve copied and saved all the information. The ABF is the best and most helpful forum on PW!

Take care,

Rick

+1, and this is coming from somebody who never plays scales. In fact, I rarely flip beyond page 1, but that first page lists all the major and minor keys and their corresponding sharps and flats, and *that* I consult frequently. One of these days I'll start playing those scales...

Rickster, you've got nerves of steel to be willing to get up there and improvise and play hymns by ear. Your congregation is very, very lucky to have you!

Yeah I know but I always have to stop and THINK about it real hard (and count down the minor third on the imaginary keyboard in my head). Plus lots of music is not written in natural minor so when I'm actually looking at music the accidentals for the harmonic and melodic always mess me up.

It's really embarrassing to admit I had 3 years of college music theory. I managed to forget most of it in the last couple of decades!!

Not knowing your piano experience, I hope I'm not over-simplifying, but . . .
Rather than concentrating on what the name of the key is that your playing in
if you see one sharp in the key signature it's F#
We build up from there as ancientsolar has listed. Notice you always keep the last sharp (or flat) from the
previous key signature. the order of the appearance of sharps is F#, C#, G#, D#, and A#. I won't get into the 6 #'s or flats yet. To remember the order make up a sentence like FIve Crazy Gorillas Drove Around.

The order of flats goes Bb, Eb, Ab, Db (which as you see spells BEAD) and then Gb. Try Baby Elephants Are Delightfully Great or whatever you like.

I hope this helps. Later, when you can look at a key signature and know what the sharps or flats are, you may want to say this is the key of A Major, D Minor, G Major etc. But the important thing to remember for practical playing is what the sharps or flats are.

Joan