Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Studiologic Numa Nero MIDI controller. AVOID!!!!!!

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Avoid the Studiologic Numa Nero like the plague!

I got it because it features the Fatar TP/40WOOD action. And it IS the best feeling action I've played on any keyboard. Better than Roland's Ivory Feel. But even the action is flawed, and I'll get to that in a minute.

For reference, I was using it to control Pianoteq.

First of all, the stupid thing doesn't even power up properly. It comes with a power adapter, but it can also be powered via USB. What they don't tell you is that it doesn't work without the USB, so the power adapter is all but useless.

Second, it's glitchy beyond belief. One minute the sustain pedal works, the next minute it doesn't. One minute the action produces sound at even the slowest touch, the next minute it doesn't.

Third, the user interface is arcane and the manual is skimpy.

Fourth, they only provide 2 pedal jacks. For a MIDI controller that's billed as a be-all-end-all unit for serious pianists, do they not know that pianists use 3 pedals? In all fairness, I knew this before buying it. I figured I didn't need pedal jacks because I had already spent nearly $400 on specialized MIDI interfaces that allow me to use all three pedals with any digital piano that has MIDI in and out, which is basically any digital piano. But that's no excuse to cheap out on pedal jacks.

Furthermore, both pedal jacks are mono. All sustain pedals that are capable of half-damper effect come with stereo plugs. The manual is scant on details, but the manual for their VMK-188 (which also has only mono pedal jacks) makes it clear that they don't support continuous sustain.

Now about the action... WOW. I can't imagine getting any closer to the real thing, except for including an escapement feature. BTW, the Fatar TP/40WOOD does in fact have an optional escapement feature, but they didn't include it with the Nero. Unfortunately, the MIDI sensors and/or execution are flawed. It's VERY difficult to play repeated notes rapidly. You almost have to press the keys all the way down and let them all the way back up before playing a repeat. NOT realistic. Also, it sends out aberrant MIDI velocities. So I'd be playing rapid repeats softly, and here and there it'd throw out velocity 127, which corresponds to maximum loudness.

On top of all this, I had to pay midi-store.com $90 shipping because they wouldn't use UPS or Fedex, but FREIGHT instead! Which, btw, costed THEM $250. Now why did we have to take on that expense? Because apparently people had already returned 3 of these things, citing damage in transit by UPS. In fact, their problem was that it wouldn't even power up. Hmmm... Too bad UPS's reputation is such that everyone just assumed it was their fault. Well I can assure you, this is a dysfunctional POS that has no business being on the market.

And try getting an answer from them. Heck, try getting in touch with them.

Needless to say, it's going straight back.

I just bought one of these. It should arrive Wednesday, but your review has given me pause in looking forward to receiving it. I bought mine from Audiosyncrazy in Florida. I am glad they have a 30-day return policy!

One question - did you flash the firmware of your Nero to the latest version? If you did, you must be careful to install the correct firmware from numaworld.it, as the Nero has its own firmware which is specifically tailored to the wood action.

I'm on a Mac. They're firmware updates are exclusively PC. Considering its other shortfalls, I didn't feel it was worth it to borrow someone's PC.

Do let us know how yours is when you get it. BTW, did you call Audiosyncrazy to make sure they had it in stock? I noticed a lot of places let you add it to your cart, but they're actually backordered.

I ordered over the phone with John at Audiosyncrazy, and I have a tracking number. Mine is definitely on its way.

I will post here once I've had an opportunity to put the Nero through its paces.

Okay, I checked out my Numa Black (Nero) all day today.

I connected it to my laptop via USB, and it powered up right away, installing the drivers automatically.

Next, I downloaded and installed the software to update the firmware. Once I placed the Nero in VCOM mode, I was prompted to install the VCOM driver (which I had downloaded with the updater), no problems there, either.

Next, the updater connected to the internet and showed me all the available firmware downloads. I then selected the latest Nero-specific version (v1.5), and downloaded it via the updater. I then selected this firmware and flashed the Nero without a hitch.

Then, I started playing Garritan Steinway Standard with the Nero. What a treat! This action is truly superior to anything else I've played, including the Roland RD-700SX, various Yamaha DPs and synths, the GEM PRP-800, and Studiologic's own VMK-188PLUS.

I never once had a problem with the sustain pedal not working during about 8 hours of playing (the one supplied is an on/off type pedal, but the Numa seems to be capable of understanding a continuous-type pedal via the latest OS update. Garritan doesn't support it yet, so I'll wait to investigate.

I did notice the rapid repeat velocity issue you descrbied, but I never play in that manner, so it is a non-issue for me. Perhaps Fatar will resolve it in a future firmware update.

I am seriously in love with the feel of this thing, so I am keeping it!

Best of luck,
Davin

Cool. Just check a couple things, please.

If you plug it in using the power adapter, WITHOUT the USB, does it work?

And do you get any signal from the MIDI out? My MIDI-powered interfaces didn't light up or work at all when connected to the Numa.

I am seeing neither of these problems. Sounds like your Numa Black unit might be faulty, or something else in your setup is causing these issues.

Hi jscomposer. I think you where a bit to hasty to judge the numa nero.
of course it sucks when you have bought a product for a lot of money
and its a faulty product. i wonder what happened to your numa nero?
did you return it? perhaps a new review of it would be in order?
i got interested in this piano and your review spoiled it pretty big for me.
seems you have been flamming your hate for that piano on many message boards.
if i google "numa nero review" i end up in this thread
and also this one:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Keyboard+And+MIDI/product/Studiologic/Numa+Nero/10/1
and this one:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...midi-controller-most-epic-fail-ever.html
do you think its helpfull for me who is interested
in this piano. since you have used your initials JS
i could figure out that it was you flamming around.
please think a little.....

Studiologic Numa Nero DISSAPOINTING !!!

Let me start by saying that KAWAI really stuffed it up with the MP8 Mk II’s action. I think all professional piano players would agree that the MP8 Mk I has the best piano action ever assembled in a digital piano which sets the benchmark. In other words it has the closest action to a concert grand. Much better then Roland RD700sx/gx, Roland VPiano, Yamaha or anything else. Unfortunately KAWAI stopped making the MP8 Mk I and the only way of getting hold of one is second hand if you are lucky.
It is quiet unbelievable that in this day and age when computers and soft pianos like Ivory are so good that you can’t find a decent controller with an authentic piano action. Surely couldn’t be that hard making one when they send a man to the moon.
So the Studiologic Numa Nero seemed promising with the TP40/WOOD action. Here in Australia I waited for over a year to get one. Finally it arrived in February 2010 and WHAT A DISSAPOINTMENT. I tested the action without triggering any sounds first and most keys where making a squeaking noise. The keys felt cheep and stiff. There was no feeling of the hammer action it was just one continuous stiff motion from top to bottom. Then I tested it with triggering Ivory piano samples and the key velocities did not respond properly. I could play a note D3 and a note C3 with the same intensity and C3 would be half the volume of D3. Other notes would also either stick out or would be to soft. The whole action is generally flawed. There is also a problem when playing repeated notes softly it will suddenly give you a burst of midi velocity 127.
With a price tag of $2300 AU dollars the cheep plastic finish and only one pedal it is no contender to the KAWAI MP8 Mk I.
Needles to say I have returned the Numa Nero to the shop the next day.

I have the Numa Nero I found these posts before I bought it and was a little concerned by the bad review(s). My fear was relieved when it was in my hands.

I am glad some of you guys send it back because that's how some of us can get a good deal on an open box. Got mine from Guitar Center on a Christmas day discount far below $1K for an open box.

Best weighted action I have used. Synth/organ players may not like it because it is geared to the pianist. I replaced my Yamaha P-80 graded action (that is very good in it's own right) with the Numa Nero for practice however the P-80 is still good for a light quick grab or backup for a gig. Feels much better by far than the P-80 to play in spades, imo. Has me practicing more.

No midi issues at all as I upped to OS1.6. (It had 1.4 in it and never even tried it with 1.4). I love this thing. As far as someone writing for 3 inputs for 3 pedals: just buy a USB pedal set of 3 to plug in your computer. 1 or 2 pedals suffices for most people in the inputs. Someone also wrote that it is not continuous (may have been elsewhere). Not true. You can set in the OS on/off or continuous. It also has a stunning look of gloss plastic. Feels like a grand piano to me and I used to sell grand pianos and worked also in a Steinway store at one time. Best keyboard I have ever played on a controller/digital.
Maybe it just fits my hands as one owner I know did say via email he thought the keys were deep but he is used to non-weighted keyboards and synths but really liked it. Like I said, this is for a pianist 'hand'.

The top is aluminum and moves forward that my Macbook Pro fits on perfectly. I can also increase the music score measure size this way on technical measures to read easier.

On the con side (the only one I can think of) it is a bit heavy for anyone grabbing to do a gig. Not for the keyboardist perhaps that stacks keyboards looking for lower weight. For a 'single' or jazz piano trio it would look nice where the piano may be focused out in front and not terrible to move. I am looking to get a 3 leg piano stand made for the new Crumar that only BGs music in Italy sells (Prome) now that despite it's look is said to be very stable and the wires go up the middle leg. (check BG music site in Italy to take a look at it, if you are curious)

I run mainly the Garritan Steinway Pro with 128 polyphony (updated last month) that runs *solely* from my Macbook Pro without using my external hard drive that has a 7200 RPM Momentus drive *internal* to a Fireface 800 rack for a sound card. I also own Ivory with the Italian Grand, True Pianos and have been working with the Pianoteq demo.

Mystified with these bad reviews. About the rapid single notes: mine works perfect. Maybe I just got lucky and have an exceptional one. "Squeeking noise"? Not mine. "Cheap and stiff"? Mine feels quality and feels nice to be playing wood though not really necessary.

I often wonder if competitors or advocates of a specific label go on these forums and flame a product when the negative review may make no sense for other owners.

I have been playing my new Numa Nero now for a month or more without one single issue and love it. The You Play really works and sets the velocities. At least for me it worked perfect and a cool feature. On one sample set I could not get the balance I wanted with velocity. I tried the You Play and it set it perfectly. I thought this was a bit of a gimmick but it really works. Great job Studiologic!! I am tickled. Thanks!!

W

Please only comment here if you play classical music and you know what a high end acoustic concert grand piano is.
Cheers

What? I thought the rule was the less you know the more you post . That's the way it seems to work in some of the other threads, anyway...

I don't think I could be persuaded to buy another Fatar / Studiologic product after our rather bad experience the the SL880 Pro. When it arrived (via UPS I believe) I noticed 1/2 of the keyboard sent aftertouch, but the other 1/2 didn't. Rather then send it back, I opened it up and discovered a disconnected cable going to the internal aftertouch ribbon. I connected it, buttoned it back up, and all was well, though I wasn't happy with how electrically exposed the aftertouch cabling was.


Lame aftertouch electrical connections for the Fatar Studiologic SL880 Pro.

Last year I noticed some keys were making a clunking sound, and tracked it down to the top lid laying on the backs of the keys. Took it apart again and noticed four plastic screw posts had cracked and crumbled, allowing the top to fall. I installed some longer screws and that seems to have done the trick, but it all strikes me as rather fragile in the first place. While I was in there I insulated and secured the aftertouch cabling with some heat shrink tubing and wireties.


Lame broken screw posts in the Fatar Studiologic SL880 Pro. The top two posts crumbled, the third one on the bottom (with white screw standoff) was still intact. The right side was the same.

We barely use it, and only took it to one light gig many years ago. It mainly just sits in our studio, crumbling away on its own accord. I'm thinking maybe we should get rid of it before it spontaneously combusts or something.

And at what point did we all become beta code testers, firmware installers, and hardware assembly QC inspectors? People in those positions are generally paid for their work - where do I log my hours and get some compensation?

Yeah I had two Kurzweil pianos with Fatar actions. Some sort of gluey resin was carelessly applied at the factory and had got into the action and prevented some of the hammers falling so the affected keys would flap when you next played them. I was taking that thing apart on a daily basis...absolute pieces of rubbish, both of them (they were not part of the same batch either). The staff in the shop would just roll their eyes when I went in to report problems. Fatar reminds me of a company in the very worst old tradition of shoddy Italian unreliability, like old Alfas and Fiats...breakdowns waiting to happen.

Steve

Somewhat off topic, but in my opinion, certain electronic manufacturers have been using the public as beta-testers for years by releasing products well before they're ready.

For example, I had numerous problems with the Garmin Colorado GPS series when it first came out: in the wilderness under a heavy tree canopy, it could place your position 1/4 mile or further away, or it would drift senselessly; the time-hardened 60CSx had no such problems.

The Garmin Oregon GPS series, when it first came out [I went through 3 of them before giving up], had similar to worse problems. It would stop working all-together and shut-down if you looked at it the wrong way.

Garmin had to release a series of firmware updates for both series, over the course of a year or more [I lost track], with some firmware updates breaking previous functionality, etc etc yada yada yada.

It is simply a case of marketing and sales at its finest -- get the product sold and deal with problems later, even if it means that the consumer will be inconvenienced as problems are worked out and updates released.

Uh, you should have sent it back. You volunteered your time. That said, I do get your point about the surprising lack of quality in some products.

dewster, may I ask how much you paid for the SL880 Pro?

You get what
you pay for.

Cheers,
James
x

If I had a dollar for every time I heard the holy phrase "time to market" uttered by my last supervisor I'd be a millionaire. The ironic thing was we were chronically behind the competition, so why not take a little more time and at least get the horribly embarrassing bugs worked out before releasing it? If you can't get there first, why not get there best?

An older EE I worked with (who was rather spookily never wrong about anything) said "there's no time to build it right, but plenty of time to fix it" which is pretty much true. Tracking and fixing bugs gave management something to manage, have endless meetings and issue mountains of emails over, debate when and how to fix them, show off their mad Excel and PowerPoint skilz, etc. I'm so glad I'm not in that environment anymore.



My initial thought was to return it, but I would have to call / email to get an RMA, box it back up, take it to UPS, pay the return postage, etc. I figured the fix might be simple, and it was - it only took 20 minutes or so of my time. Besides, when else do you get the opportunity to see a buck naked keyboard assembly?



Just found the sales ticket from Guitar Center. $600 back in August of 2001.

I take that comment to me since WHD is in the reply. I play extensive classical piano. I teach advanced classical piano. I have worked for Steinway stores/others and know grand pianos odds are FAR greater than you. I also play jazz piano and organ.

I would ask you not to post here making extremely *ignorant* snap-judgements, if you don't mind.

WHD

Firstly, ignore the very first post as it's from a typical consumer : no troubleshooting or no serious attempt at rectifying his issues. Worst-case scenario, he could have stated that he got a lemon, however he branded the model as being inherently defective, which is... to be diplomatic, not smart.

So let's avoid these stupid blanket statements, please.

It amuses me how high & mighty some people are about so-called high-end piano touch. Bottom line is that the touch varies a lot from piano to piano, nevermind brand to brand! A Steinway will feel differently than a Kawai, for instance. So when somebody posts those condescending remarks, it makes me laugh because in reality what they *mean* to say is they only want the opinion of people who are like them or who like the same things.

It kind of defeats the purpose of interacting on a msg board if people with varying opinions or stances can't say what they think based on the arbitrary censorship of one user, doesn't it?

So post away. People's ignorance quickly comes to light anyway, so it's easy to see who is knowledgeable or at least has an idea of what they're talking about and who is full of themselves.

Having said all that, I just got my Fatar Numa Nero keyboard yesterday and will be getting my stand & bench today so I can set it up. I play with Quantum Leaps Pianos which has, in my opinion, the best Steinway I have heard yet. I might buy Garritan Steinway in the next couple of months, but the demos I heard so far aren't entirely convincing when put up against QLP.

I'll report my findings after toying with this keyboard later...

Thanks for sharing Strat, really looking forward to your review.