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Perhaps it is my total ignorance of what it takes to play violin combined with my love of the sound of the instrument that has kept me from ever hearing a child play violin and totally enjoying it.

If I knew more, I would probably be 1000 times more appreciative and 1000 less critical.

Can you find a youtube with a wunderkind playing in tune?

Gary, it's not rocket science. Why do no beginner trombonists play in tune? 'terribly difficult' on the violin maybe, but that doesn't say why.

Sorry kbk - my dial-up speed doesn't allow me to do much youtube hunting. I would just mention three kids under the age of 8 whom I've accompanied, who were playing advanced works with very good intonation. I see more kids like this than I do pianist Wunderkinder, that's all I was saying.

Ah, THAT I can answer!

First, buzzing lips form the pitch. When you play brass, what you are really doing is "singing" with the lips.

Clark Terry was taught by a teacher who did not allow him to play the instrument until he could "play his mouthpiece". I don't think that way of teaching will fly with most kids, because it is very difficult, but for a great like Terry, it was perfect. I saw him play live in my area, and one of his stunts was to play a ballad with only his mouthpiece. It was so good, it was just amazing.

I used to demonstrate this idea all the time for my students.

Until those muscles are VERY well developed, they sort of "droop" or relax too much for low notes and tighten too much (usually called pinching) for the high ones. This means that high notes are sharp, in general, and low ones are flat.

There are also built in pitch problems linked to certain fingerings and certain harmonics played with certain fingerings.

Trombone has all these problems, but complicated with the fact that students must be able to get to exactly the right place (or very close) for each position. To move from low Bb to low B natural requires a movement of about 23.5 inches. In the high range almost all notes can be (and are) played with the first three positions (I can explain if you have interest in why), but playing in that high range and staying there requires a great deal of training and careful building.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

The bottom line is that there are very difficult physical skills that have to be developed. My best trombone students could play fast passages on trombone much better in tune than I could, because although I could hear every error, my arm just never got fast enough to nail the positions.

Question: why aren't some of these same physical problems equally problematic on violin?

Muscle tone is equally a problem on the violin left hand. Many a famous player say they don't play in tune but adjust after they get there - vibrato being the trick.

You've answered the physical why but I was more interested in the psychological why. Why are children allowed to get away with poor intonation? Anybody found any youngsters playing in tune yet?

If you are asking why children are allowed to play out of tune on brass instruments (since I can say nothing about violin), I stressed playing in tune at all times.

Maybe not your thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_0T2ZIjWnw&feature=related

Cathy

Maybe they just have to be fiddlers, instead of violinists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZRjoqq84og&feature=related

Of course, the whole style is different

Cathy

The first one has tape/frets. The second, if you listen carefully is not that in tune. Thanks for looking.

Neither of them was in tune. Fiddling is fun, though - I wish I could do it.