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#1231393 - 07/14/09 11:25 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]  
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If you can stretch your dollar and you're sure your daughter will go all the way, go for the U1. It has a wonderful tone and a long playing life.
It may be a personal bias, but I've always preferred Yamaha to Kawai. Yamahas generally have a high resale value as well :P

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#1231419 - 07/14/09 12:14 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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fj_s, why u say no to weber? BTW, the weber 131 is only available at Funan Christofori.

#1231425 - 07/14/09 12:21 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]  
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Think the lady at PianoMaster said Hailun 125 is actually an upright grand, sounds like dvd quality..

#1231433 - 07/14/09 12:31 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: aljy22]  
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read somewhere that a good sounded piano can actually encourage children to engage more, that's why I don wan to anyhow buy..

Or since I'm coming out cash to buy Hailun, might as well pay for Kawai K5 and the balance by instalment..stretchin further n further...ha ha..siow ah... (Kawai's rule for credit card instalment is 40% cash, 60% instalment). Wonder why Kawai can't get 100% instalment like Yamaha???

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#1231604 - 07/14/09 06:29 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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perhaps its like car, 100% financing, owner suffers if sell off after a few yrs, why? Got to top up cash to the bank.

Taking up loan, hmmmm, consider first lor, because it adds financial burden. somemore need to add monthly teaching fees, exams fees. Come'on la, pearlriver piano also can learn till grade 8 or diploma level, buying K5 or new U1 is no garantee for student's grade laugh - just a thought lor.

Key too heavy, too light, can ask technician to solve.

Finding a good, motivted, focused teacher is most important thatn anything else. Sometime you get to find them, other times they find you. if no fate, can't find at all.

Parents are also important, need to motivate child, control their tv time, organise school homework, allocate practise time, get involved ... and stuff like that.

So, buying a piano is not like buy a dvd player, just put the movie in and play.

One items good to invest is buying the Alfred CD series music book from gramercy.


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#1231606 - 07/14/09 06:33 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: snoopycar]  
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Quote
coming out cash to buy Hailun, might as well pay for Kawai K5 and the balance by instalment..stretchin further n further...ha ha..siow ah...


Oh no - not another damn Hailun thread!!

Norbert cry


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#1231673 - 07/14/09 09:08 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Norbert]  
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Sorry, I said I have not tried Weber, not no to Weber. Since it's next to my office, I will drop by to try it today. That being said, most of the pianos nowadays have reached an acceptable-ish quality (quite different from 10-20 years ago.)

Second, the term upright grand is a marketing term, not a technical term per se. It just suggests that the strings are as long as a baby grand, not that the action is any different.

Third, debt, particularly at this juncture, may not be the best idea.

Finally, I agree with Snoopycar that having a good teacher is more important than a good piano. (Caveat - the piano has to be halfway decent, but all those you are considering belong to that category.) When I was young, I changed teachers every 6 months until I found a good one....




In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1231704 - 07/14/09 10:10 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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Hi Nikkie,

The Hailun 125 which I bought, don't have funny sound and problems (so far) :P But anyway, worst case, still got 10 years warranty, so I am not worried. Anything, just ask them to fix and if really cannot fix, haha, can exchange one for one free. Haha, but of coz, I don't hope that to happen.

But true, the keys are much heavier than Yamaha's piano, and yes, if you really find it too heavy, can ask the technician to adjust one. But I feel that practising on heavier keys help strengthen the fingers strength and makes it very easy to play the Yamaha pianos, so it might be an advantage. But do note, I did get fingersache for like a month before I got used to the keys.

My piano teacher tried the Hailun 125 and felt that it is a good choice for a limited budget. She says can be used til Grade 8, so that part you no need to worry.

And most importantly, haha, it is cheap. It can last at least 10 years (given that warranty), so 3.6k over 10 years. Is cheap lor. Moreover, after 10 years, sure can get about 1k for the piano if sell at resale mkt. So, effectively is only 2.6k spent (dun assume time value of money), so even cheaper lor. So, I feel is a safe buy.

I don't advise taking loans, even if pple claim that is interested free, coz if they say is interest-free, they have already included the "interest charges" in the initial price which they quoted. And usually these interest charges are quite ex lor. So, if you can bargain until they say u need to pay cash. Haha, then you know their margin is very low liow. :P

And, personally I feel, get an affordable and not bad piano first, and if your kids really very professional and really want to pursue music in future (say, diploma and onwards), then use the money which u save now to buy them a very good one in future.

Hope these helps smile

#1231718 - 07/14/09 10:44 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]  
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Oh....for Yamaha U1 (assuming you are talking about new pianos from the Yamaha Shop, and is not U1J). I tried them before. I must say, I really like it very much. And really, it has a higher resale value coz it is YAMAHA, and somemore is U1, so after 10 years, you should still be able to sell it for 4K+. So, in my opinion you are right about the effective amount spent over the 10 years period is about the same. (for Yamaha U1 vs Hailun 125)

So, if looking from that angle, and if you can afford the U1 comfortably now (dun over-stretch yourself), is actually a good choice to get a new U1 leh.

Did I make you even more confused? haha smile

You see how much comfortable money you can afford, and let ur kids choose the one which they like the most within the price range, then decide lor.

Sorry, I never tried the Weber pianos at Cristofori. So, no comments.

#1231753 - 07/15/09 12:25 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Norbert]  
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Ha Ha Norbert, ya it's Hailun again..what to do..it's really value for money here in Singapore. HL 125 selling for S$3,600 (abt USD2,400). Be assured, i'm a genuine customer, not one engage by Hailun to spread it's name..but i don't mind if they insist to pay me..ha ha.

#1231755 - 07/15/09 12:32 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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snoopycar, fj_s, seems like can't give myself excuses to spend more on piano..sigh..but your advices are good..

fj_s, thanks for making the trip (don forget funan only), hope to hear your comment soon..can u also comment on the look (think the color is different). tx so much..

Bihua, thanks for sharing, ya..u confuse me again with U1..ha ha..

#1231768 - 07/15/09 01:04 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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I looked at the Weber.

I don't like the colour of the one on display. (Some reddish brown woodsy colour, which I'm not sure goes well with the polich) But that depends on your decor.

I tried snippets of four pieces which I'm trying to pick up - Chopin Op10:1, the repeated notes in the middle of La Campanella, Mvt 2 of Wanderer's Fantasy, Mvt 2 of Mozart's Am sonata. These pieces are quite demanding on a piano's action and tone.

Some observations -
a. The action isn't as good as the U1 I have. However, it is good enough for most purposes. Or perhaps it just needed some prepping.

b. The sound was quite good. I suppose the length of the strings does matter. Somewhat less emphasis on the fundamental, and more mellow sound compared to the U1.

What do I think? It's decent for a starter piano. It's not as good as the U1 or K3, but the price is 2/3. It has the advantage of having longer strings, which makes a difference to some. (Though that depends on your personal taste.)

As an aside, the Seiler in the showroom was really quite nice. smile


In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1231796 - 07/15/09 03:27 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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No confuse lah...to put it simply from my perspective (comparing Hailun 125 and Yamaha U1):

It is not a NEED to get U1 for your kids. A Hailun 125 is more than enough. But if you can afford comfortably (without taking loans) and your kids do prefer U1 to Hailun 125, then buy U1. Else, get the Hailun.

MY THOUGHTS (why I in the end choose Hailun 125):

By the time your kids reach Grade 8, and want to continue to pursue piano into diploma and higher, they might be asking for grand pianos or the high end upright, maybe Yamaha YUS5 or Kawai K8 already. And with the U1 or Hailun so heavily used to let them reach Grade 8, will no longer be sufficient. So in either case, you will sell/trade in your old U1 or Hailun for a new high end piano. So, effectively, is the same.

Put it another way, say your kids all give up learning halfway. I will not want to sell the piano. Will just leave it there and let them play for leisure. Afterall, they have learnt it, and is good to keep the instrument for them to play once a while. In this case, Hailun (being cheaper) has the advantage, coz I know there is not much resale value left, so at max, I lose $3.6k. I can jolly well keep it. But for U1, I might feel that it is still worth $4k+ in the resale market, maybe I should sell it to encash it. Then my kids will not have any piano to play anymore. But if I keep it, I will lose the whole $8k+.

Having said that, of coz if you compare U1 to Hailun, I prefer U1 lah! But buy something within your comfortable budget. =)

#1231910 - 07/15/09 11:21 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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fj_s, i very kam dong u really help me to test drive the weber..that's so nice of u..

very chim lei..donno if i know the pieces u played but sound very chim to me..

I remembered the salesman said that the weber 131 is good buy cos they're testing (donno wat) and their tech has been watching it, so i think should've prepped. But donno why they're not bringing in 131 anymore, only 121. Think i'll give it a miss.

Seiler, of course nice, if remember correctly, price also very *nice*..

Once again, thanks a million.

#1231916 - 07/15/09 11:30 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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Don't mention it. Gives me something to do during lunch time. Anyway I thought the sound was good, and the action was acceptable, but not fantastic.

To be very frank, you can go with any of the four pianos you auditioned. Just pick the nicest sounding one (to you) within your budget.

Seiler had a very responsive touch, which I like.

Last edited by fj_s; 07/15/09 11:31 AM.

In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1231919 - 07/15/09 11:35 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]  
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Originally Posted by Bihua

MY THOUGHTS (why I in the end choose Hailun 125):

By the time your kids reach Grade 8, and want to continue to pursue piano into diploma and higher, they might be asking for grand pianos or the high end upright, maybe Yamaha YUS5 or Kawai K8 already. And with the U1 or Hailun so heavily used to let them reach Grade 8, will no longer be sufficient. So in either case, you will sell/trade in your old U1 or Hailun for a new high end piano. So, effectively, is the same.

Put it another way, say your kids all give up learning halfway. I will not want to sell the piano. Will just leave it there and let them play for leisure. Afterall, they have learnt it, and is good to keep the instrument for them to play once a while. In this case, Hailun (being cheaper) has the advantage, coz I know there is not much resale value left, so at max, I lose $3.6k. I can jolly well keep it. But for U1, I might feel that it is still worth $4k+ in the resale market, maybe I should sell it to encash it. Then my kids will not have any piano to play anymore. But if I keep it, I will lose the whole $8k+.


Bihua, u got the valid point that i should add into my consideration. How come u prefer U1 to Kawai? is it cos the sound or touch?

fj_s, have u tried Hailun before?

Actually, i'm following thru with my girl's lesson and i make myself practise those pieces on my own. I tell myself if I follow thru, I should be able to play a bit few years later..so i'm also as excited to get a piano as the keyboard really sucks..though i only can play like do re me fa so so, so fa me re do do...don't laugh hor..got the will got the way right??

#1231923 - 07/15/09 11:41 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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Originally Posted by fj_s

To be very frank, you can go with any of the four pianos you auditioned. Just pick the nicest sounding one (to you) within your budget.


The one i like best, K5 lor..but not within budget lei..but the sound very good lei..even my gal choose that..aiya, Mr Chiu, why u price it so high lei..can further discount or not???

#1231927 - 07/15/09 11:51 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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Originally Posted by fj_s
Seiler had a very responsive touch, which I like.


Actually, how to differentiate responsive touch and action? How to tell if they're good?

#1231930 - 07/15/09 11:53 AM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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Then go down the list until you find one within your budget lah! Remember to bargain for a better price. smile

I tried the Hailun 5'10 Grand Piano, and thought it was quite nice for its price range, but I have not tried the upright you are thinking of.


In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1231934 - 07/15/09 12:00 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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I only tried Kawai K3. K3 vs U1, I prefer the U1 touch. And I was testing the U1 silent piano and I love the digital sound when it was made silent. But I don't have any preference in terms of the sound. Haha, actually I like Hailun's sound! Thick thick one!

And haha, I actually didn't like the salesperson at Robert Piano. Bad experience :P

Yamaha salesperson not bad, at least professional!

Ok, I am bias! Haha...


#1231946 - 07/15/09 12:10 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]  
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Responsive touch and action means a few things to me:-

a. The touch responds consistently, and is reasonably even throughout.

b. I can play fast passages, particularly those with repeated notes and trills easily and evenly.

c. I can play loud or soft easily and consistently.

Most new pianos don't have problem with evenness and consistency. (Probably wouldn't make it out of the factory otherwise.)

However, you should look at how easy it is to repeat notes, and change volume.

To repeat notes quickly, try this:- strike the same note in quick succession using 3-2-1 fingering and see whether all the notes emerge.

To change volume, try striking the key very softly (but depressing it all the way to the keybed) to see at what point it refuses to produce a note.


In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1231949 - 07/15/09 12:11 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Bihua]  
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wow..it's like online real time consultant services, so late u all still haven't sleep one ah..

fj_s, so u think i should check out Gramercy? out of the 4 pianos i mentioned, Gramercy one closer to which brand?

Bihua, think K3 sound so so lah..ya, Hailun sound quite thick, nice..only thing is the quality and how long it can last..but for the price, how long can i expect it last lei..cannot last, then spend 8k on U1?? then in the end spend 11k+??hm....

Funny thing, I happen to meet a not so professional Yamaha salesperson..I ask her to play a piece that can show the bass, she only can play a simple one and no others..Robert Piano one not too bad..so heng sueh lor..

#1231954 - 07/15/09 12:18 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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Usually most people recommend that you check out Gramercy, Yamaha, Robert, Robert's brother (Chiu piano), and Hailun if you are looking for a new piano. (Did I miss out any others? Emmanuel and sons?) Used ones - tonnes more shops.

I liked the Bohemia upright there, but it may be a little out of your budget. The Wilhelm Tell pianos weren't half bad either.


In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1231956 - 07/15/09 12:20 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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ok, so next time i know what to do when test drive piano..

Bihua, how many times u visit PianoMaster before deciding to buy? I been there twice already, pei sei to go test drive again..

#1231959 - 07/15/09 12:25 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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Originally Posted by fj_s
I liked the Bohemia upright there, but it may be a little out of your budget. The Wilhelm Tell pianos weren't half bad either.


so wilhelm tell and hailun, which one more preferable? Maybe i should make a trip, jus worry tat i'll further confuse myself..

BTW, which piano are u using? (pardon me if you already mentioned, my memory not v good)

#1231960 - 07/15/09 12:25 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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Also remember to test all notes, and get the sales person to play two pieces - one that requires the pedal (Chopin is a good choice), and one without (Bach or Mozart is a good choice), and see how they sound.


In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1231965 - 07/15/09 12:41 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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They are both nice. See which sound you prefer.

I use a U1 (number starts with 30xxxxx). It's 28/9 years old. The colour it comes in is no longer available haha.

I stopped playing for 11 years (NS, overseas, work), but am trying to pick it back up.

I did my LTCL on a U1, so yes, your piano matters less than your teacher. In fact, if your teacher is nice (which mine was), he would give you a lot of extra time on his two grand pianos for free even outside of lessons to get used to the touch and tone!


In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1231975 - 07/15/09 12:59 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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my gal recently day dream in the last 2 lessons, donno is it due to more difficult pieces..wonder when should be good time to let her go individual rather than class..but she quite good with piano, never practise also can play..and she's ok with current teacher..or peer pressure??

anyway, must thank u for helping..even at this hour..think bihua sleep already..

#1232016 - 07/15/09 02:10 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: Nikkie]  
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Well easy pieces don't require much practice. It's the difficult ones that do. Regardless, she probably has decent musical sense and learns quickly.

Individual lessons are usually better as you get more immediate and direct feedback. However, that depends on the quality of the teacher. When I was young, I changed teachers numerous times until I got one that I like. (Which suggests you should listen to feedback from your daughter!)


In progress

Beethoven: Op 109, Op 110
#1232244 - 07/15/09 10:22 PM Re: Adult Beginner in Singapore: Buying First Pian [Re: fj_s]  
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Ya, I went to sleep already. Wow, you all stay up until 1am 2am ah? Cannot lah, I next day need to work.

Regarding your question on how long the Hailun piano can last:-

I got no answer. But like I say, since they give 10 years warranty, it should be able to last for at least 10 years, coz you can ask them to fix or exchange one for one or post everywhere to complain them. Is a gamble lor.

But coz I was comparing to used pianos last time, and to me it is safer to get a new Hailun than a used Japan brand piano, since Hailun has a brand name to protect. And the 2nd hand shop just want to sell their used piano. If anything happens, the 2nd hand shop might ask you to trade in and then sell you another used piano (so as to earn more money).

But if you can comfortably afford U1 or K5, then go ahead. The whole point is, you have to decide what is your budget, and choose the best option with that budget.

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Counting Dave Brubeck's "Take Five"
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