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#1231742 07/15/09 12:00 AM
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Hello! For all you tech-ies I have a question:

I was considering getting a Kawai Ep-308 electric grand which is like the Yamaha Cp-70. Would you guys know of any issues I might come across with the Ep-308? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

love and music,

genemusic111

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I have never seen an EP-308, but I understand that they only have one string per note, rather than two like the CP series. This would make them more susceptible to losing all the strings on a given note, which can interrupt a performance.


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Furthermore, the Kawai is not dismountable (as far I remember). The Yamaha can be dismounted in two parts for transport.

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Well, Chris Stainton used to play the Kawai until he got
a Kurzweil. I think it has 2 strings per note, but not sure
about the dismounting part.

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Heya Genemusic,

I have *both* a Kawai EP-308M ("M" means with MIDI) and a Yammy CP-70. I'll be happy to answer any questions I can for you.

First, let me start by saying that the EP-308 is duplex-strung like the CP, not single-strung all the way up. There are other, upright models of Kawai Ep's that are single strung, but the 308 is double-strung. It sounds NICE.

If you are familiar with the CP, you know that it comes apart into two smaller (but still fairly heavy and bulky) parts for transport. The EP-308 does not do this, but can be pivoted on its base so that it stands upright, sort of taking up the same space as a smallish spinet piano.

You can download a user manual for the EP-308 (and see how this works)at:

http://www.kawaius-tsd.com/OM/DIGITAL/EP308EP308S.pdf

If you get one of these pianos make sure to ask if it comes with the pedal and power supply. It's rather a pain to replace these, though it can be done, or worked around. A Yammy CP pedal can be used, but the rod is a different length and diameter, so a custom one would have to be made (a threaded rod and a matched sleeve of the proper lengths would suffice).

The base for the EP-308 has its wheels on a sort of trapezoidal pattern, rather than rectangular, and this will be a consideration if you gig with this piano, especially going up stairs and ramps and such. When I start gigging with this piano, I am going to make a base/skid for it, and probably dedicate a set of Rol-r-Kari's (great for moving Hammond organs and such) for it.

The sound is fantastic. Get thee quickly to these videos of Jeff Lorber playing one on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDj4tpfbf4E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6QfHwEfh-Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaAG7_MzkeA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrlaHpqnkGM&feature=related


Yes, that's Dave Koz on the sax as well. Nice hair. Heh.


Oh, and here's one of Jeff playing a CP-70, BTW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tan8lE4DuDM&feature=related


Jeff is accessible via Email, BTW.

The power supply is 12V and uses the same Cannon XLR-2A-11C connector as the CP-70 does. For information on replacing teh power supply, or for building a back-up power supply (ALWAYS a good idea for any piece of musical equipment), go to this page:

http://www.oceanbeach.com/ches/daves_gear/cp70ps.html

There is a URL for a supplier that carries these connector plugs. I recommend that anyone owning a Yammy CP or Kawai EP have a couple extras, just in case they decide to quit making them. BTW I'm the "Matt" that he refers to, who provided the link to the supplier. The power supply itself is easy, the CP uses a 12V supply, and it has to be at least 250 mA, anything over 250 mA will work. I don't think you can find anything less than 250mA these days, but check it anyway to be sure. I am not sure of the amperage on the EP-308, but it should be about in the same ballpark, and it might say on the Kawai adapter, but if not, go high and you'll be safe. You only have to meet the minimum amperage requirement. The EP-308M I have uses a different, 24V power supply (because of the MIDI section), and mine came without the power supply (or the pedal, grrrr grrrr grrrr), and I used a 24V laptop power supply, with the Cannon XLR-2A-11C I got from onlinecomponents.com. The positive lead goes to the #2 terminal, and ground to #1, both of which are marked on the plastic front face of the plug.

Anyway, I recommend this piano over the CP-70 first and foremost because it has 88 keys! ;-) My brother (who lives in another state) just picked up a CP-80, and one day I hope to convince him to drag it up for a head-to-head shootout, though the fairer shootout for the EP-308M would be against a CP-80M.


Any more questions or discussion would be welcome, I do like this piano and I talking about this piano ;-)

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Oh, on the technical side, the Kawai EP-308, UNLIKE the Yammy CP-70, has a grand piano action that can be removed just like a regular acoustic grand piano's. The Yammy's is built into the case, rather than on a key frame like the Kawai and all acoustic grands. This is a very important difference for your piano tech or for you, if you will be learning how to *properly* tune, regulate, and repair your own piano.

I recommend that you have a professional piano technician tune the CP-70 and the EP-308. Because it doesn't use a thin soundboard like an acoustic piano does, and because of the inherent stability of the design, it will not require tuning as frequently as an acoustic piano would -- which would be on every change of venue, and in some venues every day. This is one of the original selling points of these pianos, along with their inherent portability and theh fact of being able to play the same piano with the same touch response and sound wherever you go. But tuning a piano is a lot more complicated and involved than it looks. It's *always* worth the money to have a qualified tech tune it.

Last edited by stuka; 07/29/09 05:43 PM.
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News Flash:

There is a Kawai EP-308 at auction today through August 5th on Ebay, it's Item # 170366478627 .

Lots of pics of this piano on the auction page, including pics of it folded up.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Last edited by stuka; 08/01/09 09:42 PM.
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First post. Woot!

Anyways... stuka this comment is mostly directed towards you because you own both pianos. I am looking to buy an electric-acoustic piano and would like to see which one sounds the best to my ears. I was wondering if there are any resources where the same song has been recorded through both pianos through a line out to a/b the sound? It would preferably be a dynamic performance.

If there aren't any, is it possible for you to record through both pianos and then post it on this thread for everyone to see? It would help immensely - i don;t think I've even heard the Kawai before...

Thanks a bunch,

Edit: If you guys have a Yamaha cp70, you can bypass some of the shittier circuitry components, and make it output with a "fuller" tone. Just follow this link: http://www.dempseyrecordmaking.com/wordpress/?p=274

Pacifist

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Originally Posted by Pacifist

Edit: If you guys have a Yamaha cp70, you can bypass some of the shittier circuitry components, and make it output with a "fuller" tone. Just follow this link: http://www.dempseyrecordmaking.com/wordpress/?p=274

Pacifist


Do you have any more info on this or photos? It sounds really simple but I'd like to see it. thanks


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Hey guys, I've shut down the "dempseyrecordmaking" site, but have reposted the "CP-70 bypass mod" instructions on my blog here:

http://www.getgoodtone.blogspot.com/

I don't have pictures or video right now unfortunately, (I'll document the next one I do), but it's a really simple process and I think my instructions are clear. Let me know if you have any questions.

Hope that helps!





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hello guys and gals, I'm ready to purchase a kawai EP308 to replace my CP-70 as we are touring most of the year and the CP is becoming quite a pain to setup before each show and to tear down after. One EP308 I'm looking at is missing the pedal but comes with a road case at a great price. Should I steer clear of this one or buy it and try to find a pedal for it or fabricate my own? Thanks for your time,

Aaron M.
Seabirdmusic.com

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Hey aaron-
I recently (November) chose a Kawai EP-308 for year long touring and got a really great place from Seale KeyWorks in Nashville...But it's March and I'm still trying to find a sustain pedal for it...although, i just recently started talking to a guy from http://vintagemusicparts.com/ ...and they usually specialize in Yamaha CP pedals...but he said he could absolutely make a custom made Kawai EP rod/pedal if I could get the specs to him.

....So, there is definitely hope for the Kawai. Btw, I was at your Nashville show last year for GMA and I saw the set up and everything for the Yamaha and I must say...the Kawai is so much more compact for a touring band.

Hope that helps!
Cheers!

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Check My Kaiwa EP-308 on you tube and
CP-70 EP-308 side by side


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3japoNthyIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ5OO1z5kLo


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Hello guys
i found out that kawai ep 308 in town but it does not have power supply
is there any way to figure out that problem?
any advice will be appreciated ! !

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There is a Kawai EP-308 for sale in my area for $1500. I'm going to see it in the next few days. Do you guys think it's a good price assuming condition is good? (Apparently it has just been regulated as well)


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I recently acquired an EP-308 but unfortunately the electronics are not powering up. I have a 12v power supply and can verify the power reaches the board. I have a copy of the User Manual, but I can't find a copy of the Service Manual or schematic. Can anyone point to these documents?

Seems to be a great piano. Does anyone know if the pin block is solid hardwood or plywood, or if it is sealed/treated similar to the CP series pin block, etc?

Thanks!

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April 8th, 2019

Dear Stuka :

REF : KAWAI ELECTRIC BABY GRAND PIANO MODEL EP308 / HAMMER HEADS

This is to share that I’m facing troubles with my Kawai Electric Baby Grand Piano Model EP-308. It happens that the inner part (Rubber) of the Hammer Heads of my Kawai EP-308 are desintegrating and render this piano unusable.

As you may be familiar, standard piano Hammer Heads are conformed by hardened wool felt (with different grade of compactness and hardness throughout the keyboard). This kind of hammer heads have been tested in my piano but regrefully produce an unsatisfactory/unplesant sound with the EP-308.

On the contrary, the EP-308 Hammer Heads are conformed by an external Leather Lining with an inner body most probably of some kind of rubber, which in the service manual there is no indication of what kind of rubber they are made of (eg : natural latex, bromobutyl rubber, chlorobutyl rubber, etc) nor there is any indication of the hardness (hardness is expressed in “Shore Units”) of the rubber which corresponds to each individual note. The Higher notes should require a harder rubber (necessary to make the higher notes to sound louder) and the lower notes should require a softer rubber.

You might be aware that spare parts, particularly hammer heads, for the EP-308 can not be found anywhere in the world and it would be a shame that this piece of fine jewelry (EP-308 in impecable shape) ends up in the trash.

I have contacted KAWAI – JAPAN and KAWAI USA and requested the specifications (kind of Rubber and hardness of the rubber for each note) to enable me to save this piano. They responded that being this piano discontinued since more tan 40 years, they do not count with spare parts nor specifications to share with me.

In view that you posses both the Yamaha CP-80 and the KAWAI EP-308 it is posible that you can assist me by responding to a few questions, as follows :

a) Are the hammer heads of the CP-80 and EP-308 similar to each other ?
b) Is the inner part of the hammer heads of the EP-308 made of rubber ?
c) Do you count with the specs for the EP-308 Hammer Heads (Kind of Rubber and relevant Hardness) ?
d) Do you count with a source for the aforesaid rubber ?
e) Are the Hammer Heads of both pianos interchangeable ?


I will greatly appreciate hearing from you soon.

Kawaily,
RICARDO DELGADO
ceo@masterfarma.com
Phone : 011 51 977 163 275 (PERU – SOUTHAMERICA)

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Given that Stuka has not posted here in about 10 years, it is not likely that you will hear from him. Not only that, but anyone who has one of these pianos is likely to have the same problem that you have. So your best bet might be either to communicate with hammer makers directly, or to experiment with various materials yourself.

If you want to experiment, you might try finding a percussionist who has a variety of mallets, to see what types give the best tone. I suspect that Kawai did not use different rubber in different registers, but used different geometry instead, or possibly voicing methods used on standard piano hammers.


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May 1st, 2019

Dear Semipro Tech,


Sincerely many thanks for your valuable comments.

Today's post is to let you know that after placing a lot of pressure upon Kawai-USA and Kawai.Japan I finally got a reply from KAWAI -JAPAN as regards to the material which conforms the inner part of the Hammer Heads of the Kawai EP-308 Electro-Acoustic Baby Grand Piano. For your perusal hereunder I copy the response I got from KAWAI's Mr. Aoki Takanori.

Best regards,

Kawaily,
RICARDO DELGADO
ceo@masterfarma.com
Phone : 011 51 977 163 275 (PERU – SOUTHAMERICA)


Dear Mr, Delgado,

Thank you for your patience to wait for my reply e-mail.

We have looked through existing technical documents record.
However, only the following information concerning EP-308 hammer material was available.

=====================================================
Hammer Top Material I “Polyurethane Rubber”

1) Natural 95 degree 11mm x 11 mm x 226mm 2 pcs.
2) Natural 97 degree 8mm x 10mm x 226mm 2 pcs.
3) Natural 97 degree 4 mm x 5.5mm x 226mm 5/9 pcs.
4) Natural 90 degree 4 mm x 5.5mm x 226mm 1/3 pcs.

Hammer Top Cover Material “Toray Ecsaine #304” artificial leather
1) 1.2mm x 68mm x 226mm 2 pcs,
2) 1.0mm x 68mm x 226mm 2 8/9 pcs.

========================================
From the above information, we guess that

Hammer Top Material is
1) 1-36 keys 11mm x 11mm x 12.5mm Hardness 95 degree Polyurethane Rubber
2) 37-72 keys 8mm x 10mm x 12.5mm Hardness 97 degree Polyurethane Rubber
3) 73-82 keys 4mm x 5.5mm x 12.5mm Hardness 97 degree Polyurethane Rubber
4) 83–88 keys 4mm x 5.5mm x 12.5mm Hardness 90 degree Polyurethane Rubber

Hammer Top Cover Material is
1) 1-36 keys 1.2mm x 68mm x 12.5mm “Toray Ecsaine #304” artificial leather
2) 37-88 keys 1.0mm x 68mm x 12.5mm “Toray Ecsaine #304” artificial leather


We are afraid we cannot advise you of full information but the above is our best possible guessing formation.
We hope these will be even a bit helpful to you.


By the way, for your information,
Although EP-308 is no longer available, we have following products in market which you may be interested in.
Various “Electric Grand” sounds on board - Stage Piano MP11 https://www.kawai-global.com/product/mp11se/
Real Grand Piano Action mounted - Hybrid Digital Piano NV10 https://www.kawai-global.com/product/nv10/

Best regards,

Takanori Aoki
Overseas Business Division
Kawai Musical Inst. Mfg. Co., Ltd.


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