Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum I wonder WHO can charge $100 plus an hour

I remember when it cost a dime to ride the bus in San Francisco. It also cost $350 to rent a 2 story, 3 bedroom luxury flat. And my parents income was $1100/month which was considered very high in those days.

I think that a lot of piano teachers here don't have a completely steady income. Students start, stop, take lessons less frequently, etc...

Perhaps a teacher could charge a monthly rate, paid in advance, for weekly lessons, and a higher rate for biweekly or consulation.

lilylady, the responses, which for the most part skirt the questions you originally asked, got me to wondering why you asked them in the first place?

Many people make the assumption that if you're charging $150/hr, your earning $6,000/wk, $300,000/yr. Seldom do specialists work a straight 40 hr week. They might be lucky if they can schedule 15 or 20 hrs of work per week on average, and work 40 or so weeks a year.

We know, of course, that an hourly fee is not indicative of the individual's net income. Overhead must be accounted for, plus taxes, which in the USA on self-employed, are approaching 50%. Argh.

I remember when my gross was under $500/mo and I had a wife and two children, rent, groceries, etc. Gas was less than 30 cents a gallon and we paid $2,950 for our first new car.

Gee, John, you must be ancient!

I've had some wonderful teachers who charged reasonable fees for the time and was told by one whose teachers included Rosenthal, Hofman, Gallico, Siloti, Laros, and others that he paid
$100 for some of them and that Mrs. Ferguson (Tausig, Joseffy, William Mason, Berlin Conservatory) was better than all of them but charged a reasonable fee.

Robert McDowell, when I went to Chicago to meet Rudolph Ganz, told me that many took lessons from him to have Ganz's name on their 'resume' as there was a time when the teacher's name with whom you studied in your bio might sway students to study with you.

I found that a couple of big names were really useless as teachers but they were 'artist teachers.' Some of the masterclasses I've attended were a waste of time. One expects to leave with something and, for the most part, I didn't.

And the observation that locality has a lot to do with charges is correct. Many wonderfully qualified teachers are in small populated areas and the demand isn't that great. In the larger cities fees are higher. Reputation, ability, demand--all play a part in charging fees.

I remember those dollar movie places where I can go and watch second-run movies in theaters for a dollar. Regular theaters charged $3.50 for Tuesday bargain matinees. The dollar theaters are closed now, and the same regular theaters charge $7 for matinees, $10 for evening shows.

There are days I feel that way!

John, for me the feeling of being "ancient" comes from having vivid memories of things my students are learning in history class.

I would hate to think that people who know that I am a teacher would assume that if another teacher charges 10 times what I charge, that by itself means that the other teacher is better. I have never been a good business person, and I loath self-promotion. I don't think what I earn is at all an accurate indication of my value as a teacher.

In Manhattan, many doctors make $1000 an hour before expenses.

I don't think 99+% of the tennis players in the world would benefit much from a lesson from Roger Federer(even though I think he is the best and most articulate player of all time). In the same way, I don't think most pianists would benefit from a teacher who taught at some major conservatory. That kind of teacher could easily have little training or experience teaching amateurs. Of course, there are exceptions.

Another point that I think that needs to be considered is that the type of teacher who would charge $100 an hour may not be the typical teacher who gives weekly lessons but may be the type of teacher who based upon his/her expertise would give an occasional lesson to advanced students.

John VDB alluded to this point in an earlier posting.

I sense an underlying murmur of disapproval for teachers receiving $100 per hour or more. I wonder how many have calculated what a classroom teacher or college professor receives per teaching hour, say an individual with 20 or more years of experience. Note, not what they get paid per hour of work, but per hour of teaching. Obviously, these are generally group lesson situations, so the cost is shared by many.

I would have thoughtthat teachers that teach with a fee of $100 or more per hour would not promote needing to see a student so regularly. See I would think that sort of teacher would teach teachers or concert artists and really advanced pianists. My piano teacher tells me that some truly advanced pianists come to see him for 'coaching' rather than really being 'taught'. It's a bit of guidance and motivation to prepare for a concert.

Out of curiosity John.

I would like to have some coaching lessons, and wondered what the going rate was for concert pianists/teachers, college profs, around the country might be.

That brought my wandering mind to who charges what, and how do they come to charge that. Who has had these kinds of lessons and did they get out of it what they had expected?

Ideally, I would love to have 2 hours of coaching at a time slot and for several units. I learn a lot from reading here on PW, listening and watching youtubes for comparisons in interpretations, but it isn't the same as a lesson.

As mentioned above, with my piddly income, I shouldn't be entertaining the idea, but I think I would like to travel to someone whom I admire and have a couple of lessons. When if not now? Heck getting a new shower could wait a bit, couldn't it? And I have now lived beyond half my life and try to put that into some perspective as well. But it really is a lot of money!

I wanted to know what other fellow teachers/players thought about high fees and who and how much they would agree to pay for such lessons.

Never have I thought that a teacher didn't deserve to get paid $100, $150. Just wondered who and why some could charge that (in a positive way).

And I thought it might be an interesting topic that others might want to hear about, and share their experiences.

I think you need to find the teacher first and then worry about the cost later.

You might be surprised. As a general rule better teachers will command higher fees but it's not always that way. I managed to find exactly the situation you are looking for a few years back. The lady I took lessons with was fantastic. She had a terrific reputation and had spent a lifetime teaching advanced students. Every time I went I would be there for over 2 hours at the end of which she would ask me what I thought I should pay! Now she was easily worth $100 an hour which is around what I paid her. It was a lot of money but then I would only go once a month or even 6 weeks.

The biggest problem is finding a teacher like this. You may not have that many options. That's why I think you should start making enquiries and tracking them down. Once you find them the cost might be of secondary importance.

Well, I'd go for it. For those who are newer to the forum, I'll rehash what Jane Tan did. One of our Seattle teachers had studied a pedagogy program with her down in Arizona, and wanted to continue, so at the MNTA convention a few years back, she enticed Jane to do a class, in which each student would get an hour private lesson, but others could observe, as everyone's problems are different, and we could learn how a really top teacher coped with a different variety of student issues.


Eventually, 16 of us signed up at $1,800 for 12 lessons, once a month. Of course, this "tuition" also covered Jane's hotel and travel expenses, and Steinway footed the bill for the classroom location.

Now, there are several "concert artist" level teachers living and working in Seattle, and I've given some thought to doing just what you're thinking of. Perhaps monthly "sessions" for a year with each of them, just to glean some different perspectives and ideas.

By the way, I had a class with Seymour Bernstein as part of Jane's program, and he was beyond amazing. He lives in your part of the country. You might check him out and see if he's still teaching (I'll bet he is).

Best of luck - you'll be so happy you did this.

John

I had not heard of SB before.

I checked out a couple of websites. He has a studio in NYC. (5 hrs away)


http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/piano/people/faculty/bernstein

https://www.burtnco.com/Bernstein.a5w

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2493/is_6_54/ai_n13825592/

What is your teaching philosophy?

To make people feel good about themselves by helping them express their deepest emotions through music. It's a process of integrating feeling, thinking, sensory perception and physical coordination--all the requirements of a healthy, well-adjusted person. That's why productive practicing can lead towards an integration of the whole person.

Lilylady
You might consider reading Seymour Bernstein's books, not in lieu of a class of course. But I find them very interesting. His latest book "Monsters and Angels" offers fascinating details about life as a student, performer, teacher and many interesting teaching tips. It is a great read.
Another of his good books is "In your own two hands" (self-discovery through music). This book if more focused on technique, interpetaion and growth of a pianist while the first one is more biographical.

http://www.seymourbernstein.com/publications.html

Believe it or not, when I taught in Japan, they told me I HAD to charge at least $250 per hour, otherwise, they would think I was not a good teacher. I was shocked--I wanted to charge $75. When I studied with Adele Marcus, she charged $65, then $75, and when I was at Juilliard, in 1980s, her private fee was $125.
I am now touring, teaching, recording, and consider myself in synch (or much less expensive) with my colleagues who also teach privately, in universities and in master classes. Having studied with Adele Marcus, and getting the results when people come to me as teachers, students, professional pianists looking to enhance their performance(s), I tried to find a fee that is acceptable for my level in the industry, and came up with the comparable rate, if not lower. I am always open to people studying with me sporadically, for whatever reasons. Everyone comes with a different reason and purpose for their lessons. The Skype fee is considered worldwide acceptable for what I offer.

My favorite SB quote from a master class: "You're not walking to your execution!" He said it with a deadpan expression. I don't think the kids got it, though. Otherwise, he was very inspirational and compassionate as a teacher.