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Does practice really make a difference? #1227895
07/06/09 08:23 PM
07/06/09 08:23 PM
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Wise Idiot Offline OP
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Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Wise Idiot] #1227896
07/06/09 08:27 PM
07/06/09 08:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,733
Betelgeuse, baby!
Janus K. Sachs Offline
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Betelgeuse, baby!
response


Die Krebs gehn zurücke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Wise Idiot] #1227897
07/06/09 08:29 PM
07/06/09 08:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,363
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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What makes you think it doesn't? I definitely play a song better after practicing it, and even better after doing so for a week, 2 weeks, etc. Even students who practice only by playing through can get better at a piece, although it my not be as well done as with *good* practice. wink


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Janus K. Sachs] #1227902
07/06/09 08:37 PM
07/06/09 08:37 PM
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cardguy Offline
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And another.

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Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: cardguy] #1227908
07/06/09 08:45 PM
07/06/09 08:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 260
Phoenix, AZ
agraffe Offline
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elaboration

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: agraffe] #1227910
07/06/09 08:47 PM
07/06/09 08:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044
♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
pno Offline
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♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
conclusion


♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: cardguy] #1227911
07/06/09 08:48 PM
07/06/09 08:48 PM
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Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
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sotto voce Offline
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Of course it makes a difference. Indeed, what else would in lieu thereof?

In the words of Carl Czerny: "Practice is the great Magician, who not only makes apparent impossibilities performable, but even easy."

Obviously, we're talking about focused, "good" practice. The only mistake might be to think you'll notice results within a single practice session. I think instead that you need to sleep on it (i.e., "post-practice syndrome" or however that phenomenon is labeled).

Steven

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Wise Idiot] #1227912
07/06/09 08:54 PM
07/06/09 08:54 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 559
Japan
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Arabesque Offline
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What is *good* practice? How do you make practice interesting?
Clearly there is too much focus on the finished performance. But effective practicing is such an interesting science.

There is clearly an 'Alpha state' during which the mind and body are going to work together and then practice is most effective. If this alpha state is understood then it is not necessary to spend hours slaving away at the keyboard. This also applies to other disciplines.




It don't mean a ting if it don't have dat swing
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Arabesque] #1227913
07/06/09 08:58 PM
07/06/09 08:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 378
Irvine, CA
Coolkid70 Offline
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Irvine, CA
trolling


Kawai K-3 (2008)
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Morodiene] #1227924
07/06/09 09:17 PM
07/06/09 09:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,654
northern California
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Barb860 Offline
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northern California
Originally Posted by Morodiene
What makes you think it doesn't? I definitely play a song better after practicing it, and even better after doing so for a week, 2 weeks, etc. Even students who practice only by playing through can get better at a piece, although it my not be as well done as with *good* practice. wink


"Good" practice, yes. But don't you hate the expression: "only perfect practice makes perfect"? Every time I hear someone say that I want to slap them because who is, after all, perfect?


Piano Teacher
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Barb860] #1227929
07/06/09 09:28 PM
07/06/09 09:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,288
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LiszThalberg Offline
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Madam, are you laying eggs?

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Wise Idiot] #1227935
07/06/09 09:47 PM
07/06/09 09:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5
Virginia
keys_2play Offline
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Virginia
Practice is critical to any level of improvement. cool

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Barb860] #1227944
07/06/09 10:04 PM
07/06/09 10:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 556
Orlando
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Journee Oubliee Offline
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Orlando
^ good point. no such thing as perfect practice and no such thing as a perfect performance.

I could screw up something as easy as Beethoven's 'Fur Elise' in public, no matter how good I thought I was ...

accidents are prone to happen no matter what ...

practice however is highly essential to minimize the chances of messing up ... it coudn't hurt...

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Journee Oubliee] #1227948
07/06/09 10:19 PM
07/06/09 10:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 728
South Carolina, USA
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wdot Offline
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South Carolina, USA
Do you want to get better?

Signed,

Idiotic Wise Man.

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: wdot] #1227950
07/06/09 10:41 PM
07/06/09 10:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,271
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Offline

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Lexington, Kentucky
Unnecessary repetition of point made earlier.


Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
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Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Monica K.] #1227953
07/06/09 10:51 PM
07/06/09 10:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
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sotto voce Offline
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Originally Posted by Monica K.
Unnecessary repetition of point made earlier.

And yet repetition is a necessary part of practice. smile

Steven

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Barb860] #1227961
07/06/09 11:23 PM
07/06/09 11:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 277
dmc092657 Offline
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As opposed to what ? Not practicing and just playing on the fly ?

I wish I could do that...

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Wise Idiot] #1227962
07/06/09 11:40 PM
07/06/09 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 22
Canada
cccyyy Offline
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Canada
Practicing is very important. Quality time spent with a piece from focused and varied perspectives are always an aiding factor in a musical relationship.

There is always the danger of "suffocating" a piece of music, or pain caused by "over-practicing"
but that usually results from pushing or forcing, emotionally or technically.

It's more of an internal debate on what balanced practice means to each individual, what works. And physically, how much of a muscular foundation is available for an endurance that feels right.


Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: cccyyy] #1227965
07/07/09 12:02 AM
07/07/09 12:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,679
Auckland, New Zealand
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Ted Online content
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Posts: 1,679
Auckland, New Zealand
Yes, of course practice in general makes a very big difference. However, contrary to the proverb, it does not make perfect but just makes permanent. So if you practise in silly ways for years you will acquire negative habits which are hard to correct. Ideally, I suppose optimal practice habits and a good general technique should be established when relatively young by a good teacher. Then you are more or less set on course for life and can concentrate on your music.


"We shall always love the music of the masters, but they are all dead and now it's our turn." - Llewelyn Jones, my piano teacher
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Ted] #1227993
07/07/09 04:32 AM
07/07/09 04:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 395
Enebyberg Sweden
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Robert Kenessy Offline
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Enebyberg Sweden
no, practice doesn't make any difference whatsoever. Most pianists don't practice.

Most performers sight read at their concerts, or memorise the music only by reading, not by practicing.


Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Wise Idiot] #1228016
07/07/09 08:13 AM
07/07/09 08:13 AM
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Damon Offline
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No, I attain all my improvement from sleeping with my digital piano under my pillow. Practice is for losers.

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Robert Kenessy] #1228095
07/07/09 12:51 PM
07/07/09 12:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 71
North-central Minnesota
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ManyHandedMusician Offline
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Originally Posted by Robert Kenessey
no, practice doesn't make any difference whatsoever. Most pianists don't practice.

Most performers sight read at their concerts, or memorise the music only by reading, not by practicing.


seriously?


Currently working on:
-Die Moldau
-some jazz stuff
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: ManyHandedMusician] #1228096
07/07/09 12:52 PM
07/07/09 12:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,593
Seattle area, WA
gooddog Offline
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I think your leg is being pulled. grin


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: gooddog] #1228108
07/07/09 01:09 PM
07/07/09 01:09 PM
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Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
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sotto voce Offline
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What an awesome thread!

Steven

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: sotto voce] #1228110
07/07/09 01:20 PM
07/07/09 01:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,717
not somewhere over the rainbow
Pogorelich. Offline
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not somewhere over the rainbow
Psh. Practice. Ha! What an outdated idea. Sight read at concerts and say you're using a score to "honour the composer".



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: sotto voce] #1228119
07/07/09 01:35 PM
07/07/09 01:35 PM
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Horowitzian Offline
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Originally Posted by sotto voce
What an awesome thread!

Steven


I'll raise you:

WHAT AN AWESOME THREAD!!!!!!!!!


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Pogorelich.] #1228121
07/07/09 01:36 PM
07/07/09 01:36 PM
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Haverhill, Massachusetts
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John Citron Offline
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Practicing wisely is what makes the difference. Practicing for the sake of practicing without focus on the tasks is useless because nothing is gained from the wasted time.

I agree with Ted. Practice basically reinforces what we're doing by rehearsing the acts over and over, and by practicing poorly and sloppily, we could easily practice the bad habits, which are nearly impossible to break once they have formed.

When we get to the performance stage in a piece, our mind and fingers have been playing the piece so long that it becomes second nature. Being nervous doesn't count because that can interfere, but practicing a piece well and gaining a good solid confidence in it will keep the nerves from interfering with the performance.

Some people are an exception to this. Horowitz and Rubenstein never practiced yet their performances were extraordinary. Perhaps they had practiced a lot earlier in their careers and had rehearsed their music so well back then that they no longer needed to work on it.


John


Current works in progress:

Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: John Citron] #1228128
07/07/09 01:49 PM
07/07/09 01:49 PM
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I learn by osmosis. Practice is for unimaginative people.

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: Boira] #1228159
07/07/09 02:57 PM
07/07/09 02:57 PM
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Only the mediocre practice. In fact, if you need to practice to improve, you really should be doing something else.


It always cracks me up though when i see richter saying he seldom practiced more than 3 hours a day on the Enigma film by Monsangeon. Then a minute later the director tells Richter's wife and she says "You're kidding? 3? Rather 6, 8, 10 ..."

Re: Does practice really make a difference? [Re: izaldu] #1228172
07/07/09 03:21 PM
07/07/09 03:21 PM
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[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI][/url] [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI[/video]

Last edited by bitWrangler; 07/07/09 03:25 PM.
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