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Hi all,

We are looking to purchase a used baby grand piano for our family...it will be a "first" piano for the kids, and I also play a bit. We aren't looking for anything with concert-quality sound, we just want to know we are getting a fully functional, nice sounding, nice looking instrument.

Anyways, we are a bit aprehensive about making such a big purchase, but a model on this website has caught our attention: http://www.sonnyspianotv.com/gal_piano.php Has anyone ever heard of this store? Any advice on how to buy a used piano, and/or what we should ask the dealer (potentially "Sonny") when making this purchase? Any advice would be much appreciated...thanks!!

Hi DS&EB, and welcome to the PW forums!

I have no direct experience with Sonny’s Pianos, other than the fact that a few years ago, when I was shopping around for a pre-owned grand piano, I did come across Sonny’s web site and actually emailed him several times about one of his pianos on his gallery. Of course, I didn’t buy a piano from him because I just couldn’t come to terms with the idea of buying a piano without playing it first (not that I can play all that well ). Since then, I do get an occasional marketing email from him, but I don’t mind… he seems like a nice guy and I enjoy looking at his pianos; some of the prices of his used pianos seem reasonable compared to some I see. I have never read anything derogatory about him or his business.

I know shopping around for a nice pre-owned grand piano can be frustrating and annoying, but I would highly suggest that you at least look at the piano in person and play it before you buy it. And, preferably have an independent piano technician to inspect it thoroughly before purchasing.

Wish I could be of more help.

Take care,

Rick

Please do not buy a piano sight unseen over the internet. Only consider pianos you are prepared and able to personally visit along with a qualified piano technician to survey the instrument. There are likely brick and morter piano dealers near you that have values on used as well.

By the sounds of some of the pianos on the website I would certainly not buy sight unseen.

Especially if you demand the sophistication of true concert-quality sound...

Norbert

Norbert, DS&EB stated in their original post they were not looking for concert quality sound, only a piano for the family to use.

I recently bought my piano from Sonny and can tell you he is honest and his products are accurately described. From my extensive research, I found his prices to be better than anyone else's on the Internet or in the brick and mortar stores I visited.

Although you will be running contrary to the advice of many good folks on this board, I would not hestitate to buy from him if you like the piano and price. Sonny told us if we did not like the piano, we could send it back at our cost. I think he will take good care of you if you do business with him.

"Sonny told us if we did not like the piano, we could send it back at our cost." This is a foolish notion and dangerous.

DS&EB,
It would appear that Sonny is located in the NYC area.
Is this an area you can drive to to examine the piano(s) you are interested in? Do you have a tech you have confidence in to accompany you there? Clearly I don't know all the players in the piano business in every local. I do know a lot. This vendor seems new. No one has spoken of them on this forum before. Think this through before you jump.

Which specific piano on the site are you interested in? Can you give us more details?

I hope you take the advice you've received to heart, DS. No one could add much more than these simple (but, too true) basics. It is in your best interest.

You might find it something of an eye-opener to read some of the back numbers on this forum. Of course it's good news to read a successful story like Vandyboy's, but not everyone who has shopped this way has been so fortunate. So, your apprehension may be well-founded.

At the very least, you should know that every single piano is different, and the only way to tell which one you really want is to play it in person.

Marty has a good book on the piano buying process, Larry Fine (link to the left) has another. It's worth money to you to read up, and could spare you and your family a great disappointment.

But--- a piano you will love is out there, and very good deals are out there right now. You wouldn't buy some other expensive appliance without doing the research and looking at the market, would you?

Why is my mentioning Sonny's return policy a "foolish notion and dangerous?" Seems to me your statement is an inflamatory, even slanderous remark without any qualification or explanation.

If I can spend multiple thousands on a piano, I can afford to pony up the $450.00 to send it back to Long Island if I don't like it. I had that option listed in writing from Sonny. Yes, it would be a hassle, but it is a risk you take buying any large item that is shipped to you. I might add that you won't get a return policy nor a money back guarantee from many private sellers.

I received a PM from another PW Forum member who had bought a Baldwin from Sonny. He was very pleased with the piano and thought he got a great deal.

This is not a way for everyone to buy a piano, but it made sense for me and my wife. Buying a piano online runs counter to conventional piano purchasing logic, but the internet provides a viable alternative for buyers if you know what you want and are willing to have some faith in your seller. Sonny proved worthy of the faith we had in him.

Thanks so much for the responses...we will definitely go to check out the piano (we live close enough to Long Island that it is worth our while). Was more curious if anyone had an experience with Sonny's establishment. Vandyboy's comments put a lot of my concerns to rest. And Marty, we are interested in the Chickering...would have sentimental value since I am from Boston (home of Chickering), and my grandmother had a Chickering in her living room that I used to play when I was young.

THanks again, everyone, for your helpful comments

DS&EB,I hate to rain on Sonny's parade but if you think you are getting a full comprehensive restoration of a vintage piano worthy to be passed down to your kids for the low $ he's asking,you're in for a big surprise. It's funny,I just addressed the restoration of this exact piano (5'6" Chickering) on an alternate thread.It would be in your best interest to read it.A vintage piano, especially this piano in particular with the original brass flange wippens is a time bomb ready to explode with near nobody in the industry with original replacement wippens for this action. Do your homework.
So,keep my # because when those wippens start disintergrating which they will very soon,if not already you will be in dire need for those parts. I have them in that we always replace the entire action but I keep the old original wipps for solely your situation. If you don't change the action in it's entirety on this piano it will be a PSO shortly. Ask your tech you are gonna hire and....ask Sonny what he thinks.

Norbert,Are you knocking Sonny's pianos or his piano playing?

I have just visited Sonny's site for the first time. I have no experience with Sonny and I had never heard of him before.

My quick thoughts:

This is in regards to the 1927 Steinway M that is featured. The piano is selling for $13,950.00. It is admittedly totally original, but has been Refurb/Refin. (??) I assume that means the action has been regulated in addition to refinishing.

This piano was designed in 1927 to last up to seventy years by its designers. While this piano can be beautifully rebuilt to go another 70 years, the cost of that rebuild would be between 18 - 25k, or more, depending on the actual work performed. (Refinishing would be an additional cost, if one wanted the higher quality finish that is customarily put on a Steinway or a Mason)

If one is going to buy an "as-is" piano and have it refinished (the finish appears to be a sprayed filled finish, no rub) one could do that easily locally, particularly if it doesn't matter how the piano performs. I do not see a need to buy a piano like that long distance.

I hope that helps,

I'll side with vandyboy and tell you that Sonny was very honest and very helpful. In fact, the particular piano I bought (I purchased the Baldwin that vandyboy mentioned) was just as he described, if not better. He and his company really went over the action and the furniture to make sure it was the best shape as possible.

I knew I wasn't getting a perfect piano in perfect condition, but I am ok with that. His prices were FAR better than any around my area. Similar pianos like the one I purchased in my area were approaching 10K, a price I could not pay at the time!

And as vandyboy said, it is probably wise to have it checked out ahead of time, but sometimes that is just not possible. Welcome to the age of Internet. I knew the cost, I knew the risk, and I accepted it and have ZERO regrets. In fact, I'd buy from Sonny again in a heartbeat. Also, Sonny's return policy was clear and I bought into it.

I can't speak for other online venues, but I imagine Sonny understands that if his pianos aren't as he describes someone is bound to call him out on it - such as through this forum. That is the beauty of the internet, if you aren't honest one's reputation can be besmearched at a geographically large level.

Vandyboy,

My negative remark about a "return" option stemmed from the fact that at the time I had no idea where the OP lived in relation to the seller. Long distance transactions are fraught with complications. There have been at least two recent posts of nightmare scenerios of folks attempting to return purchases and obtain refunds. Several months ago a real fiasco errupted with an internet seller absconding with buyers deposits and purchase dollars. I don't know this Sonny and have no knowledge of his opperation. My comments were directed at the general idea that a return option should in no way influence a potential buyer. The best insurance is to do proper dilligence before the sale.

I guess as long as a buyer is aware of exactly what one is getting for that price point,thats Ok in my book. But if you are expecting a higher end restoration on top of the piano itself for ?,it doesn't happen in the real world aside from some fluke private party distress situation.In that Sonny is a dealer "per se" there is no fluke distress scenario. Basically you get what you pay for. There is a dealer in every city whereas this stereotype "business mdl." exists to fullfill that lower end pricepoint niche. With the influx of brand new asian pianos at the same comparable pricepoint,most of these type dealers have fallen by the wayside. "It is what it is"

One should never forget that buying a piano "as a family" and then often for "beginning children" is an entirely different undertaking than selecting an instrument personally as a player or pianist.

There are different demands and expectations that can quickly become a matter of confusion.

As a buyer one should constantly ask oneself if the price range, appearance and basic condition of a piano is the most important aspect of the purchase or if other issues are at stake.

Unfortunatley often expectations by buyers within certain price ranges and the representations of such pianos by stores are both unrealistic.

Everybody knows that it is much easier to fullfill the needs of an 'average' buyer - often a beginner - than would be the case with more advanced, experienced or informed customers.

That's why it is very difficult for us outsiders to give advice in such cases, other than recommending to act on the side of common sense and basic caution.

Wishig you a successful conclusion of your search!

Norbert

Marty, I remember reading those posts about people being ripped off when I first started looking at the forum (I was then lurking). I now understand more clearly what you were saying and hope I did not offend you with my response.

I felt comfortable with the written return guarantee I had from Sonny. After our extensive conversations and emails, I felt he was a good dealer and an honorable businessman. As agrayIWU stated, my wife and I knew the risk, took the chance and were delighted with the outcome. We would not hesitate to buy from him again or refer our friends to him.