Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Welcome PianoTV members!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
121 registered members (anamnesis, AndyP, ADIRL, Amedeus, 26 invisible), 1,240 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
#1218658 - 06/17/09 12:06 PM Re: End piano lessons! [Re: keyboardklutz]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member
sotto voce  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,163
Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Originally Posted by TimR

Case 1, no teacher, most learn bad technique.
Case 2, bad teacher, most learn bad technique.
Case 3, rare good teacher, x percentage learn good technique. X is somewhere between 0 and 100.
The idea is to keep looking. You know when you've found a good'n - you'll never want to leave.

Unfortunately, the problem is that you won't know when you've got a bad'un.

Is "never want[ing] to leave" a good thing for the student? So far in this thread, only Ed Weiss has challenged that idea (though the benefit of changing teachers has been mentioned); coincidentally, in an unrelated discussion in the Pianist Corner another member said:

Originally Posted by Palindrome
Your goal as a student is to acquire, eventually, the ability to work up a performance from the score on your own.

I'm very interested in knowing how much support there is for the view that the purpose of instruction should be ultimately to advance on one's own.

Steven

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1218665 - 06/17/09 12:31 PM Re: End piano lessons! [Re: sotto voce]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keyboardklutz  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,856
London, UK (though if it's Aug...
No man is an island.


snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/

#1218672 - 06/17/09 12:38 PM Re: End piano lessons! [Re: sotto voce]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,921
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
rocket88  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,921
Sotto Voce:

Quote
I'm very interested in knowing how much support there is for the view that the purpose of instruction should be ultimately to advance on one's own.


Steven, I completely support the view that the purpose of instruction is ultimately to advance on one's own.

I constantly tell my students that they should think like they are the teacher, and from that perspective observe how they play, notice what needs improvement, and think about how to fix it, using their previous lessons as an example.

I tell them that I am with them for a few minutes a week, and at some point will leave their lives permanently, so they should learn to do what I do when teaching them, i.e. notice tension, mistakes, phrasing, etc, and fix them. For theory, they can always increase their learning from books, classes, etc.

If they have that approach to their practicing, they can perhaps advance to the place where they can learn on their own.

There are at least 2 caveats to that:

First, I have had some students who appear rather clueless regarding music, and thus have never, to my knowledge, exhibited the ability to lead themselves anywhere musically. They simply do not know where to go or how to get there. It is all so foreign and new to them.

(I am the same way with math...I could never advance with math to the point where I could explore greater and greater mathematical concepts on my own.)

Second, The student should have a solid foundation to begin with of (gasp!) technique, reading, ear training, etc. How can they build a good structure upon a poor foundation?

So yes, that is the point...to teach them how to play the piano, with enough knowledge and experience so that at some point they are able to continue to grow on their own, or at least not fall backwards in their playing.

Having said that, there should always be room in one's thinking for input from other, more wiser and more experienced people, be they "teachers" or not. Is that not why very accomplished pianists pay big $$$ to attend master classes?

ps... the reason for not wanting a teacher should never be a bad experience with a teacher, or reading about someone else's bad experience, etc. Not wanting a teacher should mean you no longer need one on a steady basis because you now can actually play the piano!


Last edited by rocket88; 06/17/09 12:53 PM.

Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.
#1218687 - 06/17/09 01:00 PM Re: End piano lessons! [Re: sotto voce]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,340
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,340
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by sotto voce
I'm very interested in knowing how much support there is for the view that the purpose of instruction should be ultimately to advance on one's own.


Steven--

That's the view of public education in general. You wouldn't want people to go to school for the rest of their lives after the age of 18. The goal of education is to make each individual student proficient enough in many skills to survive in the real world.

But I think piano is different. Even though I am teaching piano now, I know there are limits to my teaching abilities. In the most ideal world, I would continue to take piano lessons and keep expanding my piano skills. I don't think there can be an end to piano learning.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
#1218710 - 06/17/09 01:37 PM Re: End piano lessons! [Re: AZNpiano]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,921
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
rocket88  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,921
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
In the most ideal world, I would continue to take piano lessons and keep expanding my piano skills. I don't think there can be an end to piano learning.


Exactly... I too would love to keep on studying with a teacher(s).

However, I think the intent of Sotto Voce's post was that people could progress in a good way alone after a solid foundation was laid by a competent teacher.


Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.
#1218711 - 06/17/09 01:38 PM Re: End piano lessons! [Re: sotto voce]  
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,654
Barb860 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Barb860  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,654
northern California
Originally Posted by sotto voce
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
Originally Posted by TimR

Case 1, no teacher, most learn bad technique.
Case 2, bad teacher, most learn bad technique.
Case 3, rare good teacher, x percentage learn good technique. X is somewhere between 0 and 100.
The idea is to keep looking. You know when you've found a good'n - you'll never want to leave.

Unfortunately, the problem is that you won't know when you've got a bad'un.

Is "never want[ing] to leave" a good thing for the student? So far in this thread, only Ed Weiss has challenged that idea (though the benefit of changing teachers has been mentioned); coincidentally, in an unrelated discussion in the Pianist Corner another member said:

Originally Posted by Palindrome
Your goal as a student is to acquire, eventually, the ability to work up a performance from the score on your own.

I'm very interested in knowing how much support there is for the view that the purpose of instruction should be ultimately to advance on one's own.

Steven


I tell my students "you will always be your own best teacher". This remark always gets my students' eyebrows to raise. I tell them I am here to guide them and be their coach; to explain and demonstrate technique and introduce them to the world of piano music. Ultimately, they must be accountable for their progress.


Piano Teacher
#1218764 - 06/17/09 03:11 PM Re: End piano lessons! [Re: Barb860]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 186
ClassicalMan Offline
Full Member
ClassicalMan  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 186
USA
Now we're exiting the never-ending circle:)


The thought of eternal efflorescence of music is a comforting one, and comes like a messenger of peace in the midst of universal disturbance--Roman Rolland, Musicians of Former Days

Vast untapped resources lie within.
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
CLEARANCE SPECIALS!
Save Big In our online store now

In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
SummerKeys
Maine Coast Music Vacation for Adults
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Omoshiro Block
by twocats. 01/16/18 02:30 PM
Drop screw and letoff button
by Sanfrancisco. 01/16/18 01:22 PM
OPUS 102 new piano
by GR20. 01/16/18 12:17 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,814
Posts2,687,627
Members89,464
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0