|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
79 members (AaronSF, apianostudent, beeboss, brdwyguy, benkeys, Abdulrohmanoman, accordeur, 19 invisible),
2,241
guests, and
447
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346 |
Sorry, not in one year! In 2006, a high gloss ebony C3 was $31,390 retail.Most of the better pianos increase as for retail yearly, I was just a bit surprised at the $ jump in 2 years.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621 |
In my observation and personal opinion some manufacturers tend to announce sudden and steep price increases simply as a sign of self-appointed confidence in their line in the hope of consumers following suit.
For example Petrof has done same a while back with doubtful results.
If this is the right way to go in the middle of the current recession remains to be seen.
In my opinion [and own observation...] those who are able and willing to forego unwarranted or unnessesary price increases in recognition of a currently tough market still being able to add quality to their product, will be ahead.
I believe current sales figures are in support of reflecting this trend helping to shape a market increasingly different from the past.
Norbert
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 771
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 771 |
I'm not here to support Yamaha's large price increases, as, in my view, they are certainly over the top. However, Yamaha have, rightly so, earned their reputation for incredible reliability, consistency and build quality, which almost every other manufacturer envies.
Even with their price increases, the Yamaha C series grands and their U series uprights, (specifically, as their budget range is now not so competitive), still represent excellent value for money when compared against all other makes. And they know it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,236
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 13,236 |
I am just visiting this thread again for the first time since my last post on it.
Turandot, while your perspective is refreshing and needed here on PW, I did not intend to knock Yamaha product even a little bit. The C3 is a dependable piano. It is a pleasant piano to play. I have sold many of them over the years. I see how they age. I see the problems they traditionally have and I see their strengths.
But there are reasons why the C3 became popular in the first place. It was never made to be an equal with the finer handbuilt pianos. I was a church musician while in college and I actually helped a church choose one in the 1980's. The presentation then all revolved around "bang for the buck". They certainly had it at the time. The church was quite happy with the choice.
In the 1980s the yen against the dollar made it a CHEAP piano for what it was. Today it is not a cheap piano and customers are now able to compare it at the same price with low production, handbuilt brands that use techniques and materials that Yamaha does not touch until you get into their S series.
My thoughts,
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439 |
I am just visiting this thread again for the first time since my last post on it.
Turandot, while your perspective is refreshing and needed here on PW, I did not intend to knock Yamaha product even a little bit. The C3 is a dependable piano. It is a pleasant piano to play. I have sold many of them over the years. I see how they age. I see the problems they traditionally have and I see their strengths.
But there are reasons why the C3 became popular in the first place. It was never made to be an equal with the finer handbuilt pianos. I was a church musician while in college and I actually helped a church choose one in the 1980's. The presentation then all revolved around "bang for the buck". They certainly had it at the time. The church was quite happy with the choice.
In the 1980s the yen against the dollar made it a CHEAP piano for what it was. Today it is not a cheap piano and customers are now able to compare it at the same price with low production, handbuilt brands that use techniques and materials that Yamaha does not touch until you get into their S series.
My thoughts, Rich, Here are my thoughts. Historical context has nothing to do with Stevester's question. How you presented Yamahas to your customers in the eighties has nothing to do with the question. The decreased value of the dollar against the yen has been matched by the decreased value of the dollar against the Euro. Neither has anything to do with the question posed. Labor costs have increased in Europe and Asia. Again, this has no bearing on the question. IMO Yamaha's intent is not to provide a cheap bang-for-the-buck piano, and certainly NOT to copy "low production, handbuilt brands that use techniques and materials that Yamaha does not touch". However, whatever Yamaha's intent is, it's not related to the question. You took a jab at Yamaha in your earlier post. You took another here. No big deal. People can read.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604 |
The company I work for is one of the largest new Yamaha retailers in the country. The MSRP we post on every piano is just that, the Yamaha MSRP. The damn prices are high enough without a dealer jacking them up higher in an artificial manner.
The comment was made that the street prices remained the same. Larger dealers may have back up stock on their warehouse as the old wholesale. This may support status quo street pricing until these units are sold through. "Street prices" have a tendancy to "linger" in the minds of shoppers and be spread around by certain ethnic groups.
The myth of a new Yamaha U1 at $5k is just that with current wholesale prices. New Yamaha C3s at under $25k are long gone as well.
It is difficult for retailers who must respond to a material wholesale increase to turn this big ship of market expectation in the direction of new higher pricing. Frequently the retailer bites the big bullet of materially lower margins for a time until this can be accomplished.
For a manufacturer's line to grow and prosper it must be in demand and yet must also be profitable for retail dealers. Unprofitable products are shunted to the back corner, and not reordered when sold.
Manufacturers and distributors are pushing the elasticity of the piano market place in what some have labeled "desparate times." Only time will tell if these moves were correct and sustainable. Sadly, in my 35+ year experience in the business I have never seen material wholesale price reductions. Piano prices historically have had to wait until the economy rised again to a stasis level before the next hike.
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop. Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 76
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 76 |
Upon glancing at my most recent Ancott book which lists all the MSRP yearly for all the various piano manufacturers, the retail price of the C3 increased near 50%. In one year? How could that be?? The Fine MSRP only increased by 6% between the 2007-08 and 2008-09 editions.. In normal times, we would be seeing massive inflation in the US with what the Fed is doing, but right now we are suffering stagflation. Yamaha Japan is less raising prices but more hedging against the weakening dollar. Chinese manufacturers have the advantage since the Chinese Yuen is pegged to the US dollar with small amount of float unlike the Japanese Yen.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,044 |
I am surprised "one of the largest new Yamaha retailers in the country" does not hedge their foreign exchange currencies.
On the other hand, aren't higher Yen/Yuan what American politicians always ask for?
I wonder what would happen when the Chinese Yuan floats.
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫ YAMAHA C2M PE
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604 |
The last Ancott Associates guide was for Fall/Winter 2006-2007. Ancott prices were not actual manufacturer MSRP prices but were often close. New Yamaha C3PE in that guide was $32,190. Current Yamaha MSRP is $46,999. This would be about a 46% rise in close to three years.
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop. Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439 |
It is difficult for retailers who must respond to a material wholesale increase to turn this big ship of market expectation in the direction of new higher pricing. Frequently the retailer bites the big bullet of materially lower margins for a time until this can be accomplished.
For a manufacturer's line to grow and prosper it must be in demand and yet must also be profitable for retail dealers. Unprofitable products are shunted to the back corner, and not reordered when sold.
Manufacturers and distributors are pushing the elasticity of the piano market place in what some have labeled "desparate times." Only time will tell if these moves were correct and sustainable. Props to Marty for telling it like it is. (But a caution about the ethnic stereotyping in the same post)
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346
4000 Post Club Member
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,346 |
Well technically ,if you take the Fall/Winter of 2005-2006 Ancott which overlaps into 2006 the retail is $31,390....which would be about ? rise,46%-50% is close enough to make my point...Gulp
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,604 |
Look at me, always politically incorrect. Everyone knew I was referring to the large Hungarian population in So. Cal.
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop. Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
7000 Post Club Member
|
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,621 |
In my book it is and always has been "best piano for the buck"
Everything flows from there and every consumer has the right [and choice...] to come to a decision of his/her own.
That's why discussing 'price' or making 'recommendations' here on the board often doesn't make sense.
Especially in times like these.....
Norbert
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207 |
Fact is, that in the midst of so many new develpments and improvements by several makers in the industry you cannot simply stand in the market place and pretend times are as they once were.
Yeah... like Bösendorfer used to standing still, sticking to traditional designs and traditional methods and all that. May be that will change since Yamaha bought them out.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207 |
One might be able to get a much better rated piano for the same money.
Stevester, Rich is going to sell you a 6 foot Bosendorfer at $24,674. Call him now! If it's a new Bösendorfer, the money will still flow into Yamaha's coffer, since Yamaha owns Bösendorfer now. It's all good!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207 |
... the retail price of the C3 increased near 50%. Ah ha! So that's the quintessential Bösendorfer feature that got incorporated into Yamaha -- BEING EXPENSIVE! Guys, I have to read this thread and laugh. Stevester has been around this website for ages, has seen all the hype and faint praises and half-truths and sales speak and denigration of all guises. Stevester has quite often advised others to "play as many pianos as you can before you buy" (paraphrased). So when Stevester says he has decided on something, I'm quite sure he has done more than his fair share of comparison shopping. (What's more, the guy has been searching for, what, 6+ years now? Even if he hasn't compared 42 brands and 1077 models, isn't it time to buy and enjoy already? ) Stevester... good luck with your purchase.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 800
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 800 |
Ax,
I miss you around here.
fingers
Playing piano at age 2, it was thought that I was some sort of idiot-savant. As it turns out, I'm just an idiot.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,851
2000 Post Club Member
|
OP
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,851 |
Thanks Ax. I Hope we cross paths one day.
"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".
anon
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 44
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 44 |
I went through the thread and I can't say the OP's question was answered.
Let's change the question slightly:
What is the going street price for a new Yamaha C3 today?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,405
Posts3,349,434
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|