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The idea coming out of the initial discussion of having a Piano World Composition Competition, I thought a new thread was appropriate. Kreisler has pointed out rightly that we need someone in charge so here I am, audaciously assuming the role of co-ordinator! (Wrenching objection speak now!) Here are my proposals with parts based on previous discussions: please read thoroughly before replying to avoid redundant questions which will confuse this thread!Proposal: of a Piano World Composer's Lounge CD Project1. AimsWe discussed the possibility of having a CD Project for composers, aiming to encourage composers to (1) write piano music to their preferred style/form in a broad confine of a given theme, and (2) perform and record their works. 2. How this might work2.1 Unifying themeWe discussed that the compositions should have some sort of underlying theme. Several agreed on some form of extra-musical reference, with comments that it should not be author-restricted (so not 'poems of X' or 'paintings of Y') and that it should be globally recognised (so not a local holiday/commemoration day) Here is my proposal: we decide on a theme that is very broad yet unifying seed phrase/word, readily appreciable without research (either into the literature or the art) if none is desired. I propose five possible themes as starters: 1. Aspects of Nature 2. War and Peace 3. Water 4. Holiday 5. Love If we decide on one of these ideas, we can later on come up with a formal theme that will look/sound good as a CD title! 2.2 Musical constraintsI propose that we submit any number of pieces we like, but bear in mind that to fit into a CD, some form of selection may need to be in place. If we run into a situation requiring selection, I think it's fair that we allocate an equal amount of time to each composer who needs it. Thus, while we discussed that pieces should not significantly exceed 5 minutes, I would only propose that we are sensible with what we submit. 2-minute pieces are nice little gems but if we don't have enough it might not be worth doing a CD. On the other hand, a 30-minute ballad/rhapsody would be a bit inconsiderate! Pieces may take any form or style: play to your strength within the confines of the theme! Needless to say, as this is the Piano World Forum, we are expecting piano pieces. I also propose that if you have already composed something that happens to fit in with the decided theme, you may submit it as long as it is live-recorded (see below). You are however encouraged to write something new! 2.3 PerformanceWe agreed that all composers should record their compositions (not MIDI playbacks!). I also propose that avid pianists among us kindly volunteer to help out other composers should there be a technical problem regarding performance. It would be the composer's responsibility to contact a pianist of choice. If you're a pianist and would like to be made available to contact, please let me know! 2.4 Sheet musicI propose that participants should submit sheet music along side their recordings. The sheet music will be combined into a volume made available to the participants, and to wider circles if desired. Again, we would be very grateful for Finale/Sibelius/Lilypond sharks out there to allow themselves to be bombarded with pleading PMs for help from those who struggling with the software. 3. DatesI propose that the formal theme should be decided by the 15th June if we want to go ahead, and that recordings should be submitted by 31 October. That leaves 3.5 months which should be ample. 4. What we need YOU to do4a. If you are a composer seriously interested in participating, please: - Reply! - State whether you may need help recording your music or typing up your score. - State the themes on which you will be happy to submit pieces. This will allow me to decide on one that makes everyone happy! You may also suggest a theme if you don't find any of the five above attractive, in which case speak now and share your ideas. - Say so if you have something to add to or have disagreements to these proposals and ask any questions. But please read the following posts first to avoid redundant questions/arguments. I don't think we should proceed unless there are more than six composers willing to offer two pieces each or twelve composers willing to offer one piece each. 4b. If you are willing to made available to contact for help regarding performance or sheet music making, please reply too. 4c. If you feel like co-ordinating this project should it go ahead, let me know. Two heads are better than one! 4d. If you are willing to help out in any other way, please say so!
Last edited by Tar; 06/05/09 01:51 AM.
Tar Viturawong Amateur composer and pianist Known on YouTube as pianoinspirationverbis defectis musica incipit
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Your five themes actually underline much of the material I contributed to the first CD, the only difference being that I didn't bother providing scores. Supplying new ones for this CD would probably be dead easy, and I have plenty of time to work up new recordings. One point though - are my pdf scans of handwritten scores legible enough to be acceptable ? There are some here: Scores from a previous thread.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce
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Reading my post, it looks like I would repeat the same pieces. Of course this is not the case. New CD, new pieces and new recordings.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce
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The idea coming out of the initial discussion of having a Piano World Composition Competition, I thought a new thread was appropriate. Kreisler has pointed out rightly that we need someone in charge so here I am, audaciously assuming the role of co-ordinator! (Wrenching objection speak now!) Here are my proposals with parts based on previous discussions: please read thoroughly before replying to avoid redundant questions which will confuse this thread!Proposal: of a Piano World Composer's Lounge CD Project1. AimsWe discussed the possibility of having a CD Project for composers, aiming to encourage composers to (1) write piano music to their preferred style/form in a broad confine of a given theme, and (2) perform and record their works. 2. How this might work2.1 Unifying themeWe discussed that the compositions should have some sort of underlying theme. Several agreed on some form of extra-musical reference, with comments that it should not be author-restricted (so not 'poems of X' or 'paintings of Y') and that it should be globally recognised (so not a local holiday/commemoration day) Here is my proposal: we decide on a theme that is very broad yet unifying seed phrase/word, readily appreciable without research (either into the literature or the art) if none is desired. I propose five possible themes as starters: 1. Aspects of Nature 2. War and Peace 3. Water 4. Holiday 5. Love If we decide on one of these ideas, we can later on come up with a formal theme that will look/sound good as a CD title! 2.2 Musical constraintsI propose that we submit any number of pieces we like, but bear in mind that to fit into a CD, some form of selection may need to be in place. If we run into a situation requiring selection, I think it's fair that we allocate an equal amount of time to each composer who needs it. Thus, while we discussed that pieces should not significantly exceed 5 minutes, I would only propose that we are sensible with what we submit. 2-minute pieces are nice little gems but if we don't have enough it might not be worth doing a CD. On the other hand, a 30-minute ballad/rhapsody would be a bit inconsiderate! Pieces may take any form or style: play to your strength within the confines of the theme! Needless to say, as this is the Piano World Forum, we are expecting piano pieces. I also propose that if you have already composed something that happens to fit in with the decided theme, you may submit it as long as it is live-recorded (see below). You are however encouraged to write something new! 2.3 PerformanceWe agreed that all composers should record their compositions (not MIDI playbacks!). I also propose that avid pianists among us kindly volunteer to help out other composers should there be a technical problem regarding performance. It would be the composer's responsibility to contact a pianist of choice. If you're a pianist and would like to be made available to contact, please let me know! 2.4 Sheet musicI propose that participants should submit sheet music along side their recordings. The sheet music will be combined into a volume made available to the participants, and to wider circles if desired. Again, we would be very grateful for Finale/Sibelius/Lilypond sharks out there to allow themselves to be bombarded with pleading PMs for help from those who struggling with the software. 3. DatesI propose that the formal theme should be decided by the 15th June if we want to go ahead, and that recordings should be submitted by 31 October. That leaves 3.5 months which should be ample. 4. What we need YOU to do4a. If you are a composer seriously interested in participating, please: - Reply! - State whether you may need help recording your music or typing up your score. - State the themes on which you will be happy to submit pieces. This will allow me to decide on one that makes everyone happy! You may also suggest a theme if you don't find any of the five above attractive, in which case speak now and share your ideas. - Say so if you have something to add to or have disagreements to these proposals and ask any questions. But please read the following posts first to avoid redundant questions/arguments. I don't think we should proceed unless there are more than six composers willing to offer two pieces each or twelve composers willing to offer one piece each. 4b. If you are willing to made available to contact for help regarding performance or sheet music making, please reply too. 4c. If you feel like co-ordinating this project should it go ahead, let me know. Two heads are better than one! 4d. If you are willing to help out in any other way, please say so! sorry to put a damper on this but i dont get it. Isnt that what composers do here already  post their music for others to listen. Why a CD? If the idea(for composers atleast) is to get your music out there for people to listen, then post the pieces here. Does this CD project give a wider audience?or this CD is some kind of pride, oh yeah, i ahve got my music on CD? isnt this medium outdated anyway(2009!)? I still like the original idea of a COmpetition here, atleast that makes it interesting
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sorry to put a damper on this but i dont get it. Isnt that what composers do here already post their music for others to listen. Why a CD? If the idea(for composers atleast) is to get your music out there for people to listen, then post the pieces here. Does this CD project give a wider audience? or this CD is some kind of pride, oh yeah, i ahve got my music on CD? isnt this medium outdated anyway(2009!)? I still like the original idea of a COmpetition here, atleast that makes it interesting These are excellent points, Diane. Let me clarify: Yes, we already write and share music, so the idea of a competition or a compilation won't change that. However, both will encourage composers to write according to a theme, which gives it a nice sense of unification. Many of us realised from previous discussions that, for various reasons, little productive organisation regarding the competition was happening. If you feel like contributing organisationally to the competition idea, there will be many grateful composers out there (including myself) as we have been waiting for something to happen for a month now! Personally, however, I don't see how a competition achieves over a compilation, except for more organisational headache and potentially dangerous ego-war between participants if numbers are small (which I feel may be even more harmful than the ego gratification one gets from having one's music on compilation, and I for one already have a CD out and another one coming in November so it there's little ego-earning for me!). In addition, I would have thought that compilation is a better means to get a wider audience than a internal competition: at least it has a potential of getting out of this Forum! Getting the CD out will be Piano World Composers' triumph, not one of the "winning" participants. Of course, if people want a competitive edge to this project we can always ask Frank to do a sticky thread on each Forum asking members to vote after the compilation. This nice twist would return it to the original idea of non-panelled, informal competition, and would in my feelings be the best of both worlds if it can be organised. If it can't, hey, at least we have encouraged people to write new music together! Lastly, you're absolutely right: there's no point in restricting the form of this project to a physical CD in this age of digital distribution. Many, however, did not feel confident that we would get much participation as to force the idea of a CD out of feasibility. This thread is sounding out regarding this exactly. For simplicity, let's just keep referring to this proposal as a CD project! If I've convinced you that all this is worth doing then it would be wonderful to have you participating!
Last edited by Tar; 06/05/09 09:55 AM.
Tar Viturawong Amateur composer and pianist Known on YouTube as pianoinspirationverbis defectis musica incipit
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I'm in!  I'd also be happy to record a few submissions. No guarantees on the quality of the recording, but I'll be sure I can play them pretty well.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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I think this sounds fun! I vote for aspects of nature. For some reason I am still unclear on the selection process, am I correct that the entire piano world forum would vote, or will our organizers just pick? Not that it matters that much I guess, just curious. Also, I do have one other concern: what does this do in terms of copyright? I ask because I tend to write in groups or sets, so if I submit something that would be part of a larger grouping, and assuming it was even selected, how does this affect my ability/permission to submit it for publication with the set it was a part of, if that even happened? (sorry for the long-winded question, but I know it applies to some others here, like Kreisler, who have been published). ETA: ohhhh! I have another suggestion, and since we're looking at an October time frame this might be appropriate: how about....well....scary themes? Eerie/mysterious/monster/whatever might fall under that broad umbrella. Maybe I'm just odd but I thought the "vampire play/background music" thread Thirith posted was soooo much fun. It tickled the old brain cells to think in terms of danger/ominous themes instead of the more typical beauty/lovely/melodic themes we might be drawn towards typically. But maybe that's just me. Perhaps we could broaden it to "October" in general. There could be nature/fall themes in there, storms, and monsters, so it wouldn't be all terror.
Last edited by musiccr8r; 06/05/09 11:26 AM.
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1) alternative theme: October, I think that's a great idea! I'm trying to think of a more exciting alias for it... something like Towards Winter Solstice, it's more inclusive although it's not quite the same thing, he he  2) Selection: Diane has rightly pointed out that in this day and age we are no longer constrained by the size of the compilation. This being the case, it might be worth altering the proposal as follows: each composer is to submit no more than a total of X minutes of music (where 5 <= X <= 15, we'll see!), then it's up to the composer to only choose their best works. Nevertheless, I think having a team of co-ordinators will be helpful if numbers get big. I think it is fair to exclude submissions on grounds of "bad performance", but it would not be fair to exclude on the basis of "bad composition" (who are we to judge?!). What are people's views on this? 3) Copyrights. I think the bottom-line is that composers retain their rights but grant limited, non-exclusive rights to Piano World (if the project becomes official) to distribute, the extent of which shall be discussed. I think much can be learnt from previous projects. I shall make a point to ask Frank about what actually happened to the previous CD project at the distribution end, as well as whether and how submissions were previously filtered. Also, people who were involved in the past CD projects may be able to tell me what happened?
Tar Viturawong Amateur composer and pianist Known on YouTube as pianoinspirationverbis defectis musica incipit
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I'd love to submit a composition. Thanks for the initiative! Any of those themes are fine with me, but I'd also personally prefer to stay away from the holiday-related themes such as October and "Winter Solstice". Diane, excellent points; however, speaking for myself, I rarely have incentive (unless asked by someone else on rare occasion) to record my own works, or even to work them up to a good quality of performance. So most of what I post here - as most of what others post - tend to be midis. Also, postings here tend to mix together completed works with those seeking advice for improvement, with the emphasis, I think, on the latter. Finally, the recordings here are not organized in any way; so once a topic falls off the page, that is it, and it is mixed in with all of the other discussions. So this project would [1] be an incentive for composers to perform their own works or for another pianist to volunteer to make a composer's day by performing his/her works, [2] raise the quality of the recordings posted, and [3] organize them into one place where we can all listen to them. It would also put an incentive on people to actually listen to all of the recordings, and would put us in the mood to really connect names with works. Plus, it would be a wonderful cooperative effort that would give us the feeling of a community, rather than simply a bulletin board where random strangers post up notices now and then. But most importantly, I think it would be fun!
Sam
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Regarding copyright - could I propose that all composers protect their work with a Creative Commons license. That would allow PianoWorld (and others) the right to distribute, etc..., while still allowing the composers to retain ownership.
creativecommons.org
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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1) alternative theme: October, I think that's a great idea! I'm trying to think of a more exciting alias for it... something like Towards Winter Solstice, it's more inclusive although it's not quite the same thing, he he October is Spring in my part of the world - and we don't tend to do halloween...
Du holde Kunst...
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What about "Geography"
Everybody could pick a landmark or part of the world to write about. Anything from Times Square to the Matterhorn to Phuket to the Tajmahal to O Cristo Redentor. That would encompass a wide variety of styles, and everybody on the planet feels at least some kind of connection to geography, be it their hometown or places they've dreamed of visiting.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt) www.pianoped.comwww.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
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Count me in. I had one issue. Many of my recordings are actually midi renditions. Go to my Myspace page and see if you can figure out which ones are. Frankly I think they're better sounding recordings. If that's not good enough then I may need some help with performances. BTW, Kreisler I can do high quality location recording. If you can find a nice piano in Iowa City I'll get there and record it.
I've got pieces ready for aspects of nature, war and peace, holiday, love, and geography. Perhaps we should limit the time on the CD per composer.
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I'm partial to the "nature" and "geography" themes.
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Okay, let's wait for a couple more days for more possible participants. Since there are already seven of us here, I think it's a reasonable number if we are able to submit two pieces each? If people are happy about this then I'll approach Frank. Let's just summarise quickly on the popular themes mentioned, in no particular order: 1. Aspects of Nature 2. Places of the World Steve, I think your MIDI recordings sound fine Kreisler, thanks for pointing out the CC website. Useful link! I too recommend that we protect our works as Kreisler outlined. I'm excited
Tar Viturawong Amateur composer and pianist Known on YouTube as pianoinspirationverbis defectis musica incipit
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Allright mates. I'm down with this project. Let's get er done!
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Count me in!
Last edited by Devilish Publishing; 06/08/09 04:17 PM.
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I'm in as well. Geographical or nature oriented sounds good.
I can help anyone who only has Midi recordings.
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Will you perform mine, Theowne?
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What I meant was that if you only have a midi recording, I can convert that into a higher quality piano recording (.mp3) if you wish.
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