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Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
Axtremus #1213642 06/07/09 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Axtremus
Originally Posted by Theowne
Originally Posted by poulencfan

Although no one among the finalists particularly impressed as a sure thing, Zhang seems much more explainable for the gold than Nobu. I guess the jury is going for novelty.


I would say it seems more like the jury was going for the stated purpose of the award which is to have a pianist who can make those performances consistently and make headlines and bring audiences into the halls. Zhang, with his consistent playing and virtuosity, can do that, and so can Tsuuji, with his inspiring story. Like it or not, the competition isn't purely about best "pianist" in whatever subjective terms.
If I can be serious for a moment...

While I do not like the results, I agree with the criteria and that line of thinking. It's just that even with the same criteria in mind, I assess those pianists against those criteria differently than the juries have.



Except I don't the person who gave the criteria said anything about "making headlines" or "bringing people into the hall". The criteria he gave were readiness to perform the concerts right now and artistic merit.

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
pianoloverus #1213658 06/07/09 08:19 PM
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I assumed it wasn't too much of a leap to assume the Cliburn wanted people to come watch their booked performances.


http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。
Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
Theowne #1213675 06/07/09 08:59 PM
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Tsujii's gold is mostly about the merit and headline for Cliburn competition. without his blindness factor i really don't think his performances would win the gold. i cannot argue about Zhang the same way, because he might deserve it with his consistency and prodigious techniques, although i feel he's not mature yet artistically.

somehow the result seems made up partly for publicity rather than anything else. they really need some uplifting story written aside their competition winner list.

btw, Bozhanov's chamber award is rightly deserved, but i don't think Son's chamber performance was at the same level.

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
signa #1213682 06/07/09 09:48 PM
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有的时候自己半夜12点从学校练完琴回家,走在空无一人的小道上,走着走着就哭得泪流满面了:我那么要强是为了什么?

Sometimes at mid-night I walked home from school after practicing, walking alone on a small trail, I suddenly felt my face covered with tears: Why do I work so hard, what is it for?

4/14/2006 Haochen's last blog entry (before getting too busy to write)

Last edited by newport; 06/07/09 09:56 PM.
Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
signa #1213683 06/07/09 09:49 PM
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Those of you who don't agree with the results are missing something crucial. This jury has seen thousands of world class pianists over the years, over numerous Cliburns and international competitions, seeing many pianists as good as Vacatello and Son and Bohzenov. They are aware that we will be saying the same thing about a new Vacatello and a new Son in four short years. Now, how often does a mature, polished, technical Wunderkind such as Zhang show up? He may not be all fireworks and showmanship, but he has an uncanny maturity to his playing that is far, far less common than the charisma and electricity of a Bohzenov. And the same goes for Tsujii. When has a blind pianist ever risen to the ranks of Cliburn FINALIST? I assure you that they haven't seen one before, and they most likely won't in four years. I couldn't agree more with their decision.

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
Pumpkinhead #1213700 06/07/09 10:26 PM
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again, uplifting story or publicity is the key for their decision.

i agree with what being mentioned earlier, the competition winners are not necessarily the best pianists. it's all subjective anyway even by different juries.

the only good thing about this competition is that we all got chances to watch online free recitals and concerts with some top level pianists!

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
signa #1213701 06/07/09 10:37 PM
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Several contestants captured my attention, but only Nobu's music evoked an emotional response. Others may have played Rach better, but Tsujii was the only pianist to communicate to me. I am satisfied with the jury's decision.

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
jello_g #1213705 06/07/09 10:51 PM
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And there is a reason why a jury is a jury and a forum poster is a forum poster.


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Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
poulencfan #1213706 06/07/09 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by poulencfan
]Although no one among the finalists particularly impressed as a sure thing, Zhang seems much more explainable for the gold than Nobu. I guess the jury is going for novelty.


...or they recognized that he is a compelling artist and was more consistent and reliable than the other finalists.

Quote

After seeing Nobu at Bass Hall the past few weeks, my final opinion is that he can handle the poetic, Chopin-esque works, but beyond that, is out of his depth. He still needs to grow into the bigger stuff. Giving him the gold medal was a sentimental choice and a mistake.


Why should he need to play "the bigger stuff"? Both of the Beethoven sonatas that he offered were, in my opinion, superior to the sonatas and concerti offered by other contestants. However, since you mentioned "the bigger stuff," I heard Peter Serkin play the Hammerklavier live a few years ago and Nobu's performance was equally striking.

Zhang can play Prokofiev 2nd until he's blue in the face, and that's fine - it's his piece, he should play it, and it will serve him well. Nobu has his own personality and sound at the piano. He'll succeed by playing what he plays best (Beethoven, Debussy, and Chopin) and shouldn't be held against the standards of what others are playing. It's like criticizing Uchida for not playing the Corigliano Piano Concerto.

Now, let's talk about Bozhanov. I agree that he's an amazing artist and is worthy of merit and distinction. HOWEVER, if he had played in the finals like he did in the prelims and semis, he would have unquestionably won the competition. Something snapped and he all of a sudden became a different pianist. Maybe Conlon rubbed him the wrong way. Maybe he got tired of all the cameras. Maybe he couldn't get the rep up to his standards in time and gave up. He went from being a poetic, sensitive artist to a complete animal with "my way or the highway" as his motto. It was the most baffling thing I've ever seen. He was simply someone else for the entire last round.

Let's look at it another way. The two gold medalists come off as very humble, sincere people, even before being pianists. Do you think a conductor or promoter is going to hire someone who acts like a total jackass over them? I don't really care for her playing, but take note of how many concerts Joyce Yang is playing compared to Kobrin this year. It's about personality and reliability, and Bozhanov has much to learn in the former category.

I'm sad that Vacatello didn't medal. Wu was unremarkable from start to finish. I mostly agreed with the discretionary awards, with the exception of Son getting the chamber music prize.

Back to practicing. Watching this competition has eaten up too much of my time!

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
newport #1213708 06/07/09 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by newport
有的时候自己半夜12点从学校练完琴回家,走在空无一人的小道上,走着走着就哭得泪流满面了:我那么要强是为了什么?

Sometimes at mid-night I walked home from school after practicing, walking alone on a small trail, I suddenly felt my face covered with tears: Why do I work so hard, what is it for?

4/14/2006 Haochen's last blog entry (before getting too busy to write)


at least now he has an answer....

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
LiszThalberg #1213714 06/07/09 11:07 PM
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Well, I'd still buy Bozhanov's CD when it comes out.

Last edited by yhc; 06/07/09 11:08 PM.
Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
LiszThalberg #1213716 06/07/09 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Debussy20


at least now he has an answer....

Yes, no more tears! yippie

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
newport #1213726 06/07/09 11:54 PM
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I call this year's results "The Young and the Restless".

It is a good thing that there are two of them to share the burden of first prize. Both will benefit from a slightly lighter load.

Fredericch

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
fredericch #1213728 06/07/09 11:55 PM
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And my personal list was:

Vacatello
Bozhanov
Zhang
Tsujii
Son
Wu

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
yhc #1213741 06/08/09 12:40 AM
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If it comes out...It's no secret that competitions aren't what they used to be 50 years ago, when it made a difference. In today's world I honestly don't see the two winners competing at the world's stage. It maybe insensitive to point out, but there is already plenty of people filling in the "chinese pianist" niche. And the silver medalist? Didn't she get the silver at the previous competition? I was amazed how little buzz and relevance the competition carried overall, and honestly the biggest discussion about it was...well, HERE! Amazing how the mainstream world simply isn't tuned in, because honestly there aren't any interesting personalities, stories, or real artistry involed. It turned into a purely academic, boring, restricted, and utterly rigged activity that has no relevance whatsoever. Competition's era is over, these older than old judges are irrelevant, they don't (haven't been for a long time) produce real artists, those who are able to have an impact, to create strong feelings in people's minds and hearts. I don't have anything against any of the contestants, but I am sorry, all of the recent "big" competitions is the very definition of mediocrity. Don't expect Glen Gould to ever win, his posture wouldn't have been "WRONG". I doubt we will ever have a personality like him, or Horowitz, or Gillels, let alone Rachmaninoff and Liszt. SAD! Never have I ever been so turned off by this whole thing! I will step outside for a breath of fresh air...

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
Guldesque #1213751 06/08/09 01:17 AM
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Soon we will be talking about nobody is filling in the American pianist niche when the Chinese pianist "niche" is becoming the maintream.

The only problem I see in competitions like these (not just in piano, but in everything) is that the Americans are falling out of relevancy, in their own turf. And they still don't know why. Blame someone else! LOL!

Go outside and smoke all you want, if it makes you feel better!


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Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
pno #1213754 06/08/09 01:26 AM
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By the way, one doesn't need to be a psycho to make a great artist.


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Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
Theowne #1213809 06/08/09 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Theowne
I assumed it wasn't too much of a leap to assume the Cliburn wanted people to come watch their booked performances.


Well, that goes without saying, but it's far different from saying that was one of the main criteria for choosing the winners. Similalry, your other statement about choosing the winners based on who would make the best headline was certainly not one of the "stated" criteria and highly cynical IMHO.

I think all the finalists are among the best young pianists in the world(most of them have aleady won other big prizes) and deserve far more respect than some PW members(especially the amateur pianists) are willing to give them.

If one looks at the musical accomplishments of the jury members compared to those who seem so ready to criticize them, I think that this is also highly out of place.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/08/09 07:37 AM.
Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
pianoloverus #1213836 06/08/09 08:56 AM
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Do we move on to the Tchaikovsky International now, or can we take a breather...

Thanks!

Re: 2009 Van Cliburn Competition Megathread
newport #1213848 06/08/09 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by newport
有的时候自己半夜12点从学校练完琴回家,走在空无一人的小道上,走着走着就哭得泪流满面了:我那么要强是为了什么?

Sometimes at mid-night I walked home from school after practicing, walking alone on a small trail, I suddenly felt my face covered with tears: Why do I work so hard, what is it for?

4/14/2006 Haochen's last blog entry (before getting too busy to write)


How to you get his blog to read in English? I think I got to his his blog site at his "Major seducer of music" page , but the only blog I could find was in Chinese:
http://haochen0603haochen0603.spaces.live.com/blog/

Thanks!

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