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This is something I never gave a thought to decades ago when I was playing keyboard in a rock band. I drifted away from all things musical, only to return a year or so ago with the idea that I could teach myself to play classical piano. I've made lots of progress, but the further I go, the more I understand how daunting, even impossible the task for a 58 year old guy.

My question is about technique. Is it something that can be developed on one's own? I'm pretty sure most will say I need a teacher, but I'm not seeing how moving one's fingers quickly for example, can in some sense be "taught."

Concrete example: I'm working on Chopin op 9 no 2. I'm at the point now where I can play it fairly smoothly. Even those long trills that come up several times during the piece, and which seemed hopeless to me at first, are more or less doable for me now, especially if my hands are warm (for some reason I've always had a tendency toward cold hands). But those tiny grace notes at the very end, I just don't see how I'll ever be able to do that right..I can speed up to a certain point, and even keep it going at speed for a few seconds without breaking down, but forget the slowing down part. I just don't see that I'll ever be able to learn to do that on my own, nor do I see how anyone could teach me.

I'm recognizing that my age is less a disadvantage than a brick wall.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw this out there.

cardguy,

Think of it this way, at the level of pieces you are working on a teacher is an independent observer with a bigger bag of tricks than yours. The teacher can help with the fine details, with different practice strategies, and with ways to break through the walls.

Rich

I agree Dragon however the teacher must be a good one and there are plenty who are not.

Hey guys,

Both good points. I tried the teacher route, and she was just so bad. If I could find the right one, I'd give it another try for the reasons Rich enumerates...

cardguy,

Your thoughts must have been shared at one time or another by everyone who's a self-learner. Answers can be given about how one might benefit from having a teacher, but the question of what progress can be made without one is much tougher.

I think one of the biggest obstacles to learning on your own is that if you're doing something incorrectly or inefficiently, you're not likely to recognize it. Even if you do identify an issue as the source of a "brick wall," you're not likely to be able to remedy it other than through trial and error. While you can frame questions here and others can attempt to answer them, many problems are best observed and, likewise, many solutions are best demonstrated.

I have a feeling that those who do best as self-learners had lessons in the past and reached a threshold level of proficiency such that a basic skill set is in place. The technique acquired by even a limited background and experience can be resuscitated even after many years. I would never say it's impossible to advance if starting from scratch, but it's got to be a much harder path: if you're doing something wrong but don't know it's wrong, you're going to keep on doing it and continue to be frustrated by the result.

Hang in there! I believe your goals are within reach, and your age is not a factor (barring an age-related illness or infirmity). It sounds like you're very motivated, and that's great; you just need to decide what approach to learning is likely to be most effective for you.

Steven

Thanks STeven,

I did take lessons as a kid, and did establish a certain level of proficiency. I have reasonably fast hands, or did anyway, from my years of playing boogie woogie and ad libbing some basic blues progressions. So, you're right, I'm somewhat comfortable at the keyboard. But the rust was 6 inches thick when I started up again, this time to concentrate on classical.

I'm not even sure what my goals are. So far, every time I think something's going go be impossible, I prove myself wrong. Even that last section of the Chopin I mentioned....after writing that I went downstairs and tried using more of a rolling wrist, and voila, much better.

Can't tell you guys how much I appreciate the good, encouraging people here.

There are books on technique, and books written for teachers on how to teach technique. Reading may give you some help. The right teacher would probably give you more, but it's not so easy to find--- Amazon doesn't carry them.

Maybe you've done whqt you can do, for now, with the Chopin. Maybe if you let it rest for a while, turning to it every so often, while you broaden your base of technique working on other pieces...?

I agree pretty much with what's already been said here. A couple of points bear repeating because they really are crucial to advancement.

A good teacher is one who can immediately see a problem and know what causes it. S/he has an arsenal of techniques and tricks to break through the "brick walls".

Self-taught players may be aware of certain problems, but may not be aware of how to solve them. There may be other problems that the self-taught player is not even aware of and, hence, not aware why progress is lacking in certain areas in spite of attempts to make progress.

I had pretty good piano training as a youth and I have a certain amount of "musical intelligence" - for lack of a better expression. Yet I find working with a teacher not only rewarding for those little "aha!" solutions but also very satisfying in discussions about interpretation. Mileage, of course, varies from individual to individual, but I find a good teacher invaluable to my progress and encourging to my own sense of continued musical growth.

Regards,

Just out of curiosity, how'd you find your teacher Bruce?

Another thought occurs to me after reading Bruce's post and his mention of encouragement: that teachers aren't just there to point out and correct flaws and weaknesses but rather to give positive reinforcement as well.

If you play only for your own enjoyment and no one else hears you or gives you feedback, a teacher is someone who could actually share your joy at your progress, give you some praise and continue to motivate you to advance further.

I don't have that, and sometimes I think it would be nice.

Steven

You'll be sorry you asked = more than you want to know!

For several years before retiring and while still living in the eastern US, I participated in the Victoria Piano Summer School in Victoria, BC. When I did retire to Victoria, I looked up several of the teachers with whom I had worked at the VPSS, but none was available to taking on new students.

I finally contacted the VPSS director and asked her for recommendations. She knew of no one available among her colleagues but herself. While I hand't studied under her at VPSS, she had an excellent local reputation for fine teaching as well as performing and I simply took the chance. That was three years ago and neither of us is yet ready to part company with the other.

The short answer : I took a chance based on the teacher's reputation.

As Steven observed, a good teacher - and mine is particularly good - not only helps solve problems and engages in discussions about interpretation but can be very encouraging in general. For most people encouragement is an incentive which produces positive results.

Regards,

definitely find a teacher who plays at high level him/herself. that way, the teacher can show you how to play certain passages or what to do when you have trouble at some spots.