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Hi all -

I've been working to prevent the vibrations caused by my Kawai RX-2 from vibrating through the hardwood floor in my London flat, and wanted to share my progress on the latter here. I'm sure many New Yorkers here can relate to this challenge!

After a bit of research into methods to buffer vibration, I ended up ordering a trio of Piattino caster cups direct from the manufacturer in Germany (I asked my dealer if he could supply them, and he could at a rather significant mark-up, so instead I just ordered them direct!).



They are beautifully crafted, and are comprised of a base and ring of dense polyurethane rubber, surrounded by polished brass. The manufacturer also supplied a bit of cut wool felt for the cup part to prevent the casters from scratching the metal (and provide additional insulation).





In order to gain additional insulation against vibrations, I also added a couple of thin layers beneath the cups. I asked the manufacturer whether this was advisable, and he suggested multiple thin layers rather than one larger layer. There is a lot of expensive vibration-absorbing material out there, but I thought I'd try something cheaper, but which I thought would be effective, in the first instance.

So I went to a local carpet/flooring shop,and picked up a spare roll of dense foamy flooring for £10. I cut squares, three for each cup, and placed them underneath. I didn't want anything too spongy which I would then feel whilst playing, and so far I am quite happy with this solution.







Although the cups raise the piano about 1 cm, and the flooring squares add another 2 mm, I compensate for the increased height of the pedas by sitting on a relatively thick (nearly 1 cm) wool rug, which of course also helps to absorb the airborne sound.

The cups are quite beefy, such that the whole caster fits snugly inside:







So far, I am very happy with them - we'll see if the more sensitive of my neighbors notices... Two of my neighbors tell me they're happy for me to play 24 hours a day, but the third (beneath my flat) is less accommodating (but nice nonetheless!).

As I've mentioned here before, this piano is a practice piano and not used for performing, so I am very open to creative soundproofing solutions. Because the room has high (5 m) ceilings, even with the lid closed and a thick rug underneath, the overall sound of the piano still is quite full and spacious.

I found the manufacturer of Piattino cups to be very responsive and helpful throughout the ordering process. Feel free to send me a private message if you have any questions about the cups. You can easily find the manufacturer's website using Google, and there are a couple of other helpful posts about Piattinos on this and the tuner/technician's forum.

Cheers

Nicholas,
you allude to a critical point that retaining good neighborly relations is important when the piano is located in an appartment or suite. If someone carries a real grudge, they will hear the cat walking across your carpeted floor and complain about it. Taking your neighbors' concerns seriously and instituting real measures to mitigate the problem can work wonders. These could include agreeing on reasonable playing times as well as steps to reduce the acoustic transmission of sound.

It must be noted that sound travels from one room to the next in different ways - through the air, and through direct transmission of the piano's vibration into the floor. While it is nearly impossible to cut off 100% of the sound being transmitted into a room below the piano, the Piattino acoustic caster cups are the "big guns" when it comes to putting an acoustic break between the instrument and the building. Installing these shows a lot of good will toward the neighbors' concerns.

Normally, additional padding which you added is not needed, as this somewhat negates the low-rise feature of the Piattinos.

There is more information here:
http://www.pianofortesupply.com/piattino1.html

If you use the piattino cups on an upright piano (without wheels), how much would they lift the piano? Is there a picture somewhere showing how they look like when used with an upright piano? I can only find pictures with grand pianos.
My neighbours just complained about my piano playing and I need a solution quickly.

Being caster cups, the Piattinos are intended for use under pianos with casters.
However, there is no good reason that you cannot set the piano directly onto the cups. The cups are 45 mm high (= 1-3/4")

For use under an upright piano, Piattino caster cups are available in sets of four.

If you have no wheels, you might consider using hockey pucks instead. They are shorter and cheaper, and you might be able to get them from your neighborhood sporting goods store.

No offence, but I am not able to identify whether this is a joke or a serious suggestion...

How would hockey pucks provide any sound isolation?
Wouldn't there be risks that they crack under the weight?
I looked at some picture and they seem to be not completely flat on the top and bottom surfaces (but I might be wrong here), if so the piano could become dangerously unstable.

But of course I like the price of the hockey pucks...

A hockey puck is a 1" thick rubber disk. It should be flat enough and strong enough.

If this works, couldn't you just cut a hole, or depression, into a hockey puck to accommodate casters?

What are the Piattinos made out of that makes them so effective?

I bet you would find it is pretty difficult to put the proper depression in a hockey puck.

Perhaps the reason that Piattino caster cups cost a bit more than regular hockey pucks is that, as BDB correctly notes, (presumably from vast personal experience) it is very difficult to "put the proper depression in a hockey puck"

My problem with using caster cups is that they raise the piano too high. I then have to wind my chair up and then I have to move my chair out further in order to comfortably reach the pedals. Personally I DO NOT like caster cups, becuase they are often too high and cause these issues. It is IMPORTANT that the pianist sits at the right height. I have Shigeru cups and they are FAR TOO HIGH. So I removed them. Now I can play the piano with ease.

You are correct - height is critical.

That is one of the unique properties of Piattino caster cups: through their patented design, they insert 1-1/2 inches of acoustic insulation between the piano and floor, but raise the piano less than 3/8". That small amount is almost entirely negligible.

One can always place a small rug around the pedals to make up for the rubber which is under the casters. Two rugs should even things out entirely.

Piattino won in my case. I would feel too nervous with the hockey pucks.
Since I am in Europe I could order them directly from the producer. They had some where the brass got slightly scratched under production that I could buy for a discounted price...
Thanks to you all for your help!
:-)

I think the main issue is vibration transmitted to the floor so you need to isolate the piano from the floor as much as possible. Here is a company that makes vibration reduction rubber mats for industrial machinery. You could use this, cut it into appropriate size pieces, and use it to support the piano. You need to use some strong dense material that won't compress and lose effectiveness, carpet and carpet padding will compress quite a bit.

http://www.customrubbercorp.com/l_pads.htm

Many vibration isolation products include both the rubber and the metal for noise reduction.

https://www.coirubber.com/rubber-to-metal-bonding/

If you're making it yourself, you might want to look for the rubber and metal parts separately, clean the surfaces well, then adhere them together with some really strong rubber adhesive.