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Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? #1204797 05/23/09 07:09 PM
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xxmynameisjohnxx Offline OP
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So because of the BS I've discovered from this guys [Malcom Kandzia] study guides before, while I start 10/6 I want to ask people here if his 10/6 is good advice. Here's what hr says,
"No. 6 — Legato playing and counterpoint
Unlike No.5, this étude is more difficult than it first appears for two reasons. Firstly, the metronome marking is j = 69 and not 60 as appears in some editions. This will seem quite fast, but it is intended as a slow two, rather than a slow six. Secondly, given this somewhat fast tempo, the richly chromatic inner voice is surprisingly difficult to play evenly and quietly AND with the delicate fluctuations that make it expressive without overpowering the melody. Once again, this étude must be played without pedal and is a real test of the ability to play legato and legatissimo in both hands. Section one (bars 1-16) exercises the left hand’s ability to play legato. In section two (bars 17-40) it is the right hand that must play both the melody and inner chromatics through a series of modulations. Section three (bars 41 onwards) is a shortened reprise of the opening theme with the left hand once more in charge of the chromatics.

Learn each section thoroughly WITHOUT any dynamics - the inner chromatics must be quiet and even throughout the piece. Once you have perfected the chromatics, you can then set about adding the dynamics and changes in volume. Also note that there must be no rubato whatsoever, except from bar 49 onwards where there should be a slight sostenuto as the piece draws to an end, followed by a smorzando and rallentando in bars 51-52."

Do you agree with what he says about ways to learn and study the etude, particularly the no pedal comment. Do you have anything else in particular to add?
Here's the site I got it from if your curious
http://www.chopinmusic.net/en/works/etudes/10/
Thanks!


Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
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Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: xxmynameisjohnxx] #1204808 05/23/09 07:36 PM
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sotto voce Offline
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Though some of the commentaries on that site are frankly flaky, I find no fault with this one.

Most editions (including the first editions at CFEO) don't indicate any pedaling. Of course, they don't say senza pedale, either, so I don't know if it can be said with certainty that no pedal was intended by Chopin. He did indicate legato, sempre legato and legatissimo in various places.

Steven

Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: sotto voce] #1204815 05/23/09 07:55 PM
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xxmynameisjohnxx Offline OP
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Okay, thanks for the insight on that Steven. Your opinion on Chopin is certainly one I respect a lot. I'll try as hard as I can to use as little pedal as necessary throughout the piece. Thanks!
The reason I wanted to post here about the study guide is just to make sure that I was following good advice because of the other flaky information on the same site.


Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: xxmynameisjohnxx] #1204821 05/23/09 08:09 PM
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xx:

Instead of using what some one no one heard of says on the internet as a reference point, why not listen to the many performances on youtube by the world's great pianists to find out what to do?

Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: pianoloverus] #1204831 05/23/09 08:28 PM
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I agree that cutting the pedal, and even that playing without dynamics (to an extent) are good practice methods. You will likely never perform 10/6 without pedal, but it's important to note that it is a study in polyphony and finger legato, much like Bach's works, and before the musical decisions involved with the pedal can be tastefully exploited, you should learn to play it cleanly without pedal. I think it's good to practice everything--etude or otherwise--at a ppp dynamic first, with little to no variation. Yes, you want to avoid ingraining monotone dynamics into your playing, but the benefit to practicing very softly for a time is that it forces you to concentrate heavily on each motion you make, plus it also keeps you from causing undue strain from playing too loud. In the end, I think it will help you to layer the voices and keep the lines running smoothly and with good tone.

Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: pianoloverus] #1204935 05/24/09 03:15 AM
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xxmynameisjohnxx Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
xx:

Instead of using what some one no one heard of says on the internet as a reference point, why not listen to the many performances on youtube by the world's great pianists to find out what to do?


Because I want to have an idea of what to do WHILE learning, my interpretation will be all my own not one of the piano greats. Listening to them would be for interpretation or tempo ideas, not actually how to learn it.


Chopin: Nocturne No. 15 in Fm. Op. 55 no.1.
Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: xxmynameisjohnxx] #1204944 05/24/09 03:59 AM
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Why are you looking up flaky advice in the first place? If you are ready for that etude, you shouldn't be needing other people's words. Clue: Chopin didn't publish a study guide.

Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: xxmynameisjohnxx] #1204971 05/24/09 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by xxmynameisjohnxx
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
xx:

Instead of using what some one no one heard of says on the internet as a reference point, why not listen to the many performances on youtube by the world's great pianists to find out what to do?


Because I want to have an idea of what to do WHILE learning, my interpretation will be all my own not one of the piano greats. Listening to them would be for interpretation or tempo ideas, not actually how to learn it.


You could be listening to see if they use pedal which was the point of your OP.

Also, in terms of interpretation IMHO you should be listening to the great performances of any piece. MAYBE only conservatory level students should not be listening to other great pianist's interpreatations before/during/after the learning process. My very strong suspician is that even most conservatory students have heard many performances of most of the pieces they play before they learn them.

Most importatnly, it's not just about listening to their interpretation, it's about about learning about the musical aspects of the piece which can be learned by listening to any great performance.

Teachers (or watching/listening to Youtube performances)aren't just for solving technicak problems. They are there to help with musical and interpretive ideas.

Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: wr] #1204972 05/24/09 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wr
Why are you looking up flaky advice in the first place? If you are ready for that etude, you shouldn't be needing other people's words. Clue: Chopin didn't publish a study guide.

When one is interested in—and, especially, interested in learning—a piece of music, it's natural to want to find out all that one can about it. If "other people's words" were so worthless to learners, no one would read the prefatory remarks in editions by Cortot, Friedheim, et al. I don't think anyone sets out looking for flaky information; it just happens to go with the territory in this particular medium.

Steven

Re: Chopin 10/6 study guide, good advice? [Re: sotto voce] #1205259 05/24/09 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sotto voce
Originally Posted by wr
Why are you looking up flaky advice in the first place? If you are ready for that etude, you shouldn't be needing other people's words. Clue: Chopin didn't publish a study guide.

When one is interested in—and, especially, interested in learning—a piece of music, it's natural to want to find out all that one can about it. If "other people's words" were so worthless to learners, no one would read the prefatory remarks in editions by Cortot, Friedheim, et al. I don't think anyone sets out looking for flaky information; it just happens to go with the territory in this particular medium.


Look, the OP got the information from some site he says is unreliable, then came here to find out if it was any good. As if whatever any of us here has to say is necessarily any more reliable. How would he know that, if he's unable to figure out on his own the worth of the information from that site? This procedure of his is not like reading the remarks in a respected edition, exactly.

If it had been anybody else, I probably wouldn't have responded in that way, but this child is constantly posting inane questions here without bothering to use his brain (or his teacher, for that matter), and it gets exasperating. I know, I know, I shouldn't even read his posts if I feel that way. So, as of right now, I'm putting him in "Ignore User" mode.


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