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Hey Gang,

Intermediate here, just learning this beautiful piece.I know there are some who find it tiresome, but I'm excited to find I'm able to make my way through. I was worried I wasn't up to it...not that I don't find it quite challenging.

Question: The 4th to last measure, it looks to be played not one octave higher like the measure before and measures following, but it seems to make more sense to do so, that is to play that measure an octave higher.

Would be very sincerely appreciated if someone could give me some guidance. I've an old tattered copy, and it's hard to read...

Many advance thanks,
CG

Because of the little cadenza near the end of this nocturne in which the time signature is temporarily suspended (i.e., senza tempo), I'm not certain which measure you mean.

You could check your own score against one available online, like this one:

http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/6/6a/IMSLP00470-Chopin_-_3_Nocturnes__Op_9.pdf

I don't love that edition, but at least the 8va markings are correct. (The passage you refer to should be on page 7.)

I'm glad you're enjoying learning it!

Steven

The Kalmus edition has just as you posted. the cadenza -like section measures 4 and 5 from the end 8va.

I don't have the answer to your question, but thought I'd comment anyway. I have just started working on this piece, having heard this version that captivated me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvxS_bJ0yOU

Not tiresome at all, to me!

In the fourth to last measure, the cadenza, all the notes are played an octave higher than written except the last two groups; F,D,Eb,C (written as small sixteenth-notes in my copies); Bb,Ab,C,D (written as small eighth-notes). These two groups are to be played as written.

Regards,

In my Schirmer edition (Mikuli) it has only the LAST 4 NOTES in the 3rd to the last measure played as written. All other notes in that measure, and in the right hand of the measure before, are 8va.
I have always played it this way and feel it makes sense.

The answer to the question depends on how a particular edition is written. Two editions I have have the second to last group written on ledger lines (F,D,Eb, C) above the stave, and they are not played an octave higher.

Two other editions I have (probably the same notation as Barb860's) have the second to last group written on the stave (F, D, Eb, C) so they have the 8va written over them. They both produce exactly the same results.

The point is that from the beginning of the third to last group the passage is a descending one.

Regards,

It seems that the fundamental issue here and my previous attempt to address it have been equally ignored.

The OP asked about the fourth measure from the end, and questions whether "it" (i.e., the entire measure) should be played 8va like the measure that precedes it and the measure that follows it.

Not knowing which edition the OP is using, I assumed some uncertainty about how many measures the cadenza represents. I thus assumed a potential for confusion in counting backwards from the end:



The second-to-last measure is the arpeggiated E-flat chord.

The third-to-last measure is the cadenza itself. (Klindworth's dotted lines that arbitrarily bisect it can be ignored; they aren't present in any other edition I've seen.)

The fourth-to-last measure is the one I've circled.

Steven

Thanks for the photo--best way to address the issue for sure.

This discussion prompted me to compare editions of the Chopin Nocturne 9/2 that I have. All 3 have the cadenza notated the same way with the 8va. But all 3 have different suggested tempo markings at the beginning of the piece, differing markings such as "lento" at the beginning of the cadenza, and differing pedal markings as well.

Question: I have read that Chopin wrote out other cadenzas for this piece, other than the one Steve posted. Does anyone have these?

Not just a differing cadenza, but other variants in ornamentation throughout as well. I don't know of a public domain source, but apparently it's published in the Vienna Urtext edition. (It was discussed last year in this thread, which also has a link to a YouTube performance of this version of the piece.)

Steven

Henle gives the 8va from the ninth beat of measure 30; the seventh and eighth beats in the RH are written one octave higher rather than being marked 8va. The cadenza contained in m. 32 is given in sixteenth notes by Henle, and the last four notes are eighth notes. The last eight notes of the cadenza (F, D, Eb, C, Bb, Ab, C [8vb the last C] and D [ditto last D]) are without an 8va symbol. There are comments in the back regarding these passages and differing ornaments. Let me know If you want to know more.

Wow I have always wanted to play this piece... I just never knew what it was called! I love it when things like this happen. Thanks for the link Larry.

I want to thank everyone for your kindness and help. Very sincerely appreciated. I'm really enjoying the opportunity to interact with other pianists of varying degrees of experience and skill..

Many thanks again,
CG